Baltic Porter - Ale or Lager?

You lecture us all about categorizing beers and you use the terms top and bottom fermenting to describe yeast?

 

#allyeastsmatter

 

That term merely describes from where the yeast was collected in the fermenter in traditional brewing methods. So, with @marquis's emphasis on tradition, it is an entirely appropriate distinction for him to make.

(Caveat: I'm no brewer. That is just what I've read.)

 

I would suggest that it would be more appropriate to characterize the aspects of top fermenting and bottom fermenting as more a difference of fermentation activity vs. potential yeast harvesting.

Ale yeast will typically create larger krausen (a foamy head on the fermenting beer) during active fermentation as compared to lager yeast. This yields an appearance of top fermenting.

The other difference of ale fermentation vs. lager fermentation is fermentation temperature. Ale yeasts need to be fermented warmer or otherwise the yeast cells will go dormant and not ferment the wort. Some ale yeast strains can ferment on the cooler side (e.g., upper 50’s – low 60’s) but many ale yeast strains need to be warmer (e.g., mid-60s). Lager yeast strains can ferment much cooler (e.g., 50 degrees F) and this is typically how lager beers are fermented. The difference of fermenting with lager yeast vs. ale yeast is a difference in the amount of esters (e.g., fruity flavors) in the resulting beer. Even if an ale yeast is fermented cooler (e.g., 60 degrees F) it will produce elevated amounts of esters as compared to a lager yeast fermentation.

A Baltic Porter can be fermented using ale yeast but the resulting beer will be different from a Baltic Porter using lager yeast.

Cheers!

 

The brewery uses the yeast they use. Many of the Baltic Porter breweries are Lager breweries, so Lager yeast is used.

A little old, but Carnegie Porter was brewed using an ale yeast.
http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000797.html

 

Like these guys mentioned, it is the process. To lager is to store/cellar at cold/coller temperatures

“cold storage was used to make beer for centuries before the cultivation of bottom-fermenting yeasts”

 

See Jack Horzempa's reply. Of course, all yeast activity takes place throughout the body of the liquid, not the top or bottom. But the yeast from a "top fermenting" brew is collected by skimming the surface.
Kolsch is defined as an Obergäriges Lagerbier. Literally a top fermenting lager.Which some people cannot seem to take on board because the mantra (wrongly) divides beer into ales and lagers based on yeast action.To classify beers by yeast action leads to many wrong turnings and blind alleys.Already noted by BAs on this thread ,lumping Stouts and Porters in with Ales, at the same time as being incorrect is quite unnecessary.
I have reservations about talking about an "Ale yeast" because its use does not create an ale. It may also be used to brew Stout and Porter. Or many other types of beer for that matter.

 

Nowadays i guess, a lager.

 

The more I know, the less I understand.

 

Oh boy, not this again!

 

What's so different about the heritage of Stouts and Porters that make them not ales, while things as disparate as Scotch Ales, Brown Ales, and IPAs would all fall under the "Ale" umbrella? In terms of brewing process, there is a decent line between the overall categories of Ales and Lagers, even though some things like the Kolsch or California Common blur those lines a bit.

 

I harvest ale yeast from the bottom of my fermenter, I must be doing it wrong.

 

Can you elaborate on your perspective?

 

Yeast doesn't ferment at the top or the bottom of a fermenter. If you ever see a batch fermenting in a glass carboy, you'll notice the beer looks more like a lava lamp than anything else. It's a churning malestrom that cannot be defined as simply as top or bottom fermented.

 

The name might be a misnomer in modern brewing, but it refers to traditional brewing methods, which remain in use at a few breweries today, including at least one of the Marston's breweries in the UK. And, it does not refer to the fermenting process itself, but to how the yeast is removed from the wort.

 

I whole heartedly disagree that we should use this information to define what makes a beer a lager or ale. Interesting info though.

 

All good discussion but any of you in the Northeast U.S. should just find Jack's Abby Framinghammer this winter and you will see what all the fuss is about....

 

I did a ale at 50 degs by doubling the yeast amount and it worked just like you would using lager yeast. Only difference i see between both is that you can drink ales right away unless you care about clarity.

 

Thanks for ellaborating. In @marquis 's defense, he's one of the few here (at least in "Beer Talk") who has always made the exact same point that you are making.

 

There are various ways to define "lager" and "ale." These are terms that have evolved greatly over time and across the English-speaking world. One can try to identify historical usage of the terms, attempt to take a more scientific approach, determine contemporary common usage, etc. Given the variability and confusion that always has surrounded the terms, even within an approach definitions inevitably will vary.

I would say that marquis takes a 20th century British approach to the definitions, with some nods to 19th century British and German history, and he selects certain distinctions that at least some others have made but that weren't necessarily ever universally or even widely shared. There's nothing inherently wrong with that approach, and there's some value in the historical perspective that it spreads and on which it relies, but it's certainly not decisive, nor is it necessarily particularly relevant to the 21st century Americans who make up the majority of the BA forum users.