barrel aged - which barrel?

Just assume Heaven Hill for bourbon unless it isnt stated otherwise. I am pretty sure this is what is used for the bulk of BCBS.

 

Many BA beers are a blend on many different brands of barrels and not just one specific brand of bourbon. I know Revolution used four different bourbon barrels with Deth's Tar. I assume its due to availability of good barrels and probably the price of used barrels.

 

Something to consider here is that many barreled beers are not aged in the same type of barrel for every release, or even the same type of barrel uniformly across a single batch. They might be aged in different barrels from the same company, but that company might be selling them barrels from multiple brands (or even multiple distilleries) that differ in barrel age, barrel quality (different coopers), and mash ingredients. I suspect this is especially true for smaller breweries with less buying power, as they logically should have less negotiating power. The problem is likely going to get more acute as more and more breweries release barreled beers from a dwindling supply---being aged for years at a time, whiskey takes longer to respond to increased demand. This will force brewers to source their barrels more widely. Paradoxically, this could affect larger breweries more adversely than smaller breweries. It might not be possible for a beer as popular as, say, Bourbon County Stout, to be aged entirely in Heaven Hills barrels; but a beer that requires only a third as many barrels as Bourbon County would have an easier time getting all of them. Maybe.

I don't have it on hand but I recall someone here a few years ago posting an interview with one of the guys at Central Waters in which he stated most brewers can't tell the difference between beers aged in different bourbon brands. What matters more is the age of the barrel.

 

Waiting for BCS - Beachwood Aged.

 

It will be a long, long time before the production of bourbon barrel aged beers catches up to the production of bourbon. The bourbon barrel craze will likely die down significantly as well.

As others have pointed out regarding beers not all being aged in the same type of barrel, bourbon is produced in the same way. To produce, say, Knob Creek, the distiller might blend bourbons from dozens of different barrels, none of which would be considered "Knob Creek" by themself. This means you cannot age a beer in a Knob Creek barrel because there is no one barrel that contained Knob Creek.

 

I think you're hitting on something here. I've talked to the guys at on of my favorite breweries that has a very small barrel aging program. They said they grabbed every barrel the could find. Just finding them is difficult.

 

The only thing aged in Pappy barrels I honestly care about is Pappy (preferable) or Old Rip Van Winkle Bourbon itself. While it really may make a difference (a pvw barrel) I know that beers aged in such are so damn difficult, and expensive, to get my hands on I've come to appreciate a great BBA from an unnamed barrel all on its own

 

I use to think that the type of bourbon used wouldn't have mattered, however the many different eclipse releases shows that it does. My wife who isn't a huge bourbon drinker overwhelmingly can taste the difference when we go through the rainbow. Though they are high priced I try and get one of each color to try.
I'd like it if more beer was like eclipse in that they released multiple barrels of the same base.

 

It's just a way to get you to buy a bottle. I like the way some of the classier, old-school English brewers do it and dont even mention on the bottle that they barrel aged their beer in scotch barrels.

 

something else to consider. there may be plans for specific batches of barrels but the reality is big distillers make whiskeys using specific recipes. Buffalo Trace has 5 recipes but something like 15+ brands.

point being a specific barrel does not necessarily translate to a specific brand. when you see a specific brand named on a beer, the basic premise is the contents of the fixed lot of barrels were known to have exclusively been bottled as said brand.

the Pappy lore was something different if you know the history. it extends past a brand name. the Stitzel-Weller distillery closed down & what came out of the closed plant was heavily sought as the supply dwindled down. fact of the matter is AFAIK there's never been such a thing as a barrel labeled "Pappy" in a warehouse. any barrel anyone has seen that had that wording was looking at a barrel that was sanded down & re-stenciled w/ the wording Pappy or Van Winkle.

 

so 2 things come to mind. first, because Van Winkle bourbon is wheated whereas the bulk of other brands are rye formula bourbons, there often are some detectable differences at the higher enthusiast level when comparing.

second, the fact that the SW plant closed 1992, meant when you talked about a "Pappy" barrel you were talking about a barrel that stood up in good integrity for a big chunk of time. which that speaks to the barrels known / proven record prior to the brewer's acquisition.

never saw it printed but understood GI had 50 barrels of PVW23 for Rare & of those original 50, 49 were usable. 98% success. could be coincidence but many would point to barrel integrity.

 

Thanks! I was actually going to ask you to dive deeper into this subject since you appear to be a bourbon guy but I got distracted. What's your opinion on non PvW barrel aged beers? You mentioned that buffalo trace has 15+ brands so do you think that other than special barrels (like PvW) the average or even discerning BA could tell a difference?

 

Some breweries will disclose the barrels but most don't. In fact, some will disclose it right on the bottle. For example... Anderson Valley Brewing company makes a beer called wild turkey bourbon barrel stout and it says on the label they are in fact using wild turkey whiskey barrels to age this beer in.

 

disclaimer. having to respond via phone.

I meant some would probably be able to discern a pour of S-W Pappy from a pour of say Eagle Rare or Elijah Craig. if you mean would a beer enthusiast be likely to recognize a beer matured in a "Pappy" barrel vs a non Pappy barrel, probably not.

in my view, the significance of the "Pappy" barrel isn't necessarily the idea that a beer geek can taste the difference, it's the fact that the barrels typically have a history of solid yields even with signifcant age & multiple re-uses.

 

The contents of the barrel matters far more than the brand of the barrel.

 

I'll confirm Highbrow's statement regarding barrel labeling - Having visited every bourbon distillery in KY and been through a warehouse at all the places that age on site (a couple age off site) the only thing you know for sure with a used bourbon barrel is the distillery and the date it was filled (if you know how to read their code). The earlier poster that mentioned Knob Creek is 100% correct. "Knob Creek" barrels say "Beam Brands Co" on the head. While I am certain that the distilleries keep good records of what each barrel ends up as I am not so sure that the information passes with the used barrel into the aftermarket - which is quite brisk as there are several aftermarket used bourbon barrel brokers in this area.

You would think that any bourbon barrel product from the Lexington Brewing and Distilling Company would use their own barrels but when I took the tour very recently, the guide said that they use barrels "from several local distilleries"

I haven't really delved into bourbon barrel aged beers that much but I have to wonder if consistency is an issue or if the brewers are able to acquire a consistent source of barrels at least from a single distillery.

 

Bourbon county uses heaven hill, unless the bottle says rye (cherry, bramble, prop), then it is templeton rye.

Three floyds typically uses Woodford reserve for bourbon barrels

Part of it is a copyright issue. Can't use the whiskey in the name.

This actually got me thinking. Who do they buy these barrels from? A distillery isn't in the business of selling barrels. I know that before the bourbon barrel beer craze the primary use for old barrels was sending them to Scotland to age scotch. Do the distilleries have some one come in and buy the old barrels and then sell to breweries and scotch distilleries? This would make sence in that the breweries would have no right to use the name of the distillery.

 

not sure about right this moment but in the very recent past the rye barrels GI was using were also owned by Heaven Hill. owned is a key word because i've actually seen images of the barrel house, while the barrels are stenciled "Heaven Hill" the coding on the barrel heads tell a different tale, which is the spirit the barrels matured was actually contracted whiskey originating out of Early Times distillery & almost certainly was bottled as the Rittenhouse Rye brand. there also were some bourbon barrels with similar markings, 12 + years old and likely bottled as Elijah Craig brand.

and yes a lot of brewers use a cooper or middle man to procure barrels on their behalf.

 

This question comes up often here on BA and highbrow makes some other great points.

The reality is that most people on this site seem to go with a simple a = b mentality with beers from whisk(e)y barrels therefore I should seek out those beers from those whiskies. This mentality comes from a neglect that if you knew how whiskey is made you wouldnt even bother with this question cause there are too many factors that have already been discussed. I also forgot the barrels will be affected dramatically by where they physically might be stored in the warehouse.

That being said its worth focusing on the brewer and their recipe. It's not where they get the barrels from so much as, its what they do with it. Then the magic happens

 

This is correct. It must have at least 51% corn then the rest is up to the distiller. A bourbon might have more wheat than Rye or Barley or some other combination of the three.