Barrel Fermented vs Barrel Aged

Well, this reminds me of the discussions back in the 80s about Chardonnay fermentation. Some wineries began to barrel ferment and created different interesting wines. Some using native spontaneous yeast inoculation. Lots of malolactic buttery things. The barrel-aged steel fermented wines really picked up the oak, whether the oak was from Missouri, Limousin, or elsewhere. Then the un-oaked steel fermented and very clean wines came forward as more food friendly. Beer is becoming more like wine, less like everyman's beverage, and more specialized by the day. This is not a bad thing. To each his own. Still, to me, as contemplative as great beer can be, the real pleasures of beer are simple and not overly esoteric. As I've said before, the lines between fermentables are merging.

 

I have not yet heard about any breweries other than the sour/funky brewers doing this. Are you saying that some NON-sour/funky breweries are using spirits/wine barrels to ferment the imperial stouts? Or are you talking about just clean barrels for this discussion to get some oak character into the beer? Oak-aged Yeti is the only one that I can think of, but I think that one is strictly an aging process, not fermentation.

 

Barrel fermenting yields the best sour/funky beers. The best bugs come from the barrel. I believe that’s what makes Cantillon so good is they spontaneously ferment in barrels. As @Mothergoose03 stated I am not aware of clean beers like a stout that are fermented in a barrel.

 

I have done barrel fermented beers in Tombstone that were clean beers. We did a collaboration with Ballast Point also that was a barrel fermented porter. We do them in new toasted oak barrels with a variety of toast levels.

 

Interesting that you try the various toast levels. Are the different levels very noticeable? Have you determined what level is most accepted by the customer?

 

If you try the individual barrels, there are very noticeable differences. Heavy toast to me starts to taste smoky, medium toast has a spiciness and vanilla. Medium plus is my favorite and like you would expect, it is between the two in the flavor profile. I use a variety of them and blend for complexity though, so consumers rarely get to try them other than our barrel society.

 

Great post, but I’m not sure I agree with this part...
Beer is in some ways indeed becoming like American wine culture, and I am not a fan of that. Beer is the drink of the people, just like wine is the drink of the people in wine countries.

In Italy and France, people drink delicious wines out of simple, small shaker glasses. Sometimes even plastic! Sure, there are fine and expensive wines, but everyday wine drinking it quite utilitarian. The same with ‘fine’ beer in other countries. Hell, compare this lambic producer’s glassware:

...with this Belgian one:

Yet the idea of drinking a lambic from a simple shaker is blasphemous to many beer drinkers.

I abhor the pomp and snobbery of much of America’s wine culture. I think it’s silly at best and regressive at worst, and I hope beer isn’t going down that path.

 

Just curious, how do you manage the headspace in the barrel through fermentation?

 

I completely agree, I sure hope beer doesn't get those same snobby people with their affected airs. Well, at least not more than we have now lol. Beer is the drink of the people and should be enjoyed as such. The day we take it as seriously as the nose in the air pinky raised crowd is the day I start looking for a new beverage.

That said, regarding your pic above of a lambic glass, and I love to use them, and they do remind me of water glasses in my great grandmother's farmhouse, full disclosure should also include this

 

Is toasted the same as charred?

 

No. Simply put...Char is a bourbon thing. Toast is wine.
If you are interested in learning more, ‘Wood & Beer’ is an excellent book!

 

Those may be their primary use, but the difference between the barrels themselves is much like the difference between a slice of bread that is toasted before eating and a slice of bread that has burnt in the toaster.

@dennis3951

 

Yup, that’s why I put ‘simply put’

From there you get into toast levels and methods, wood variety and aging, forest source, etc. Generally I find the best introductory way to understand char is to think of bourbon, and toast is to think of wine.

 

@honkey Is infection a concern with clean beers fermented in wood vessels?

 

Thanks that is what I guessed.

Thanks, do you ever age beer in a new barrel that has not been toasted?

 

I just fill the barrels 2/3rds full and rack them into a blending tank as soon after primary fermentation as possible.

They are not the same. I don’t know if any charred oak barrels that aren’t toasted before charring though. Charred will give a slight smoky flavor and a lot of vanillans.

Yep!

 

If it is done, it is very uncommon. Beer rarely goes into ‘first use’ or ‘virgin’ barrels as it is. Wine barrels are almost always toasted. The problem with untoasted or uncharred barrels are twofold. 1. The raw wood soaks up a LOT more liquid, which hurts yield and introduces much more O2, which can often end up giving you vinegar. 2. The wood flavor is much stronger, more intense, and immediate. Most wines, and likely all beers are just not strong enough to stand up to that flavor intensity.

Outside of beer and wine, it becomes more common. Vinegar and hot sauces often use untoasted barrels, as do many spirits. I helped make a couple of batches of mezcal as a teenager, when I spent a summer In Oaxaca. We put one of the batches into barrels to age and used a variety of barrel sources. A couple of wine, a lot of bourbon, and a handful of untoasted virgin oak.

Keep in mind that in wine, just because the whole barrel isn’t untoasted, it doesn’t mean none of the barrel is. The heads of wine barrels are often untoasted and they can be over 30% of the contact area. Some wineries even have their own custom barrels (like 1 toasted head and one untoasted). I broke down a cognac barrel once that had a clear toast line across one head, so these guys wanted 3/4 of their head area toasted.

As you can see, barrels are a black hole of art, science, and tradition if you make the mistake of starting to get more interested in them.

 

No mention of the Firestone Walker Union system? They use 30-40 toasted oak barrels, a new barrel goes in, the oldest goes out, to reduce the infection chances.