Basic Water Chemistry

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by fastenoughforphish, Jul 26, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. fastenoughforphish

    fastenoughforphish Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2012 Illinois

    My question. I am interested in changing my water profiles to possible bump my homebrews up a level and help with hoppier beers, but I am not necessarily looking at the moment to get to invested into the water chemistry aspect oh homebrewing. Are there basic steps I could use to help my beers?

    Are there additions that generally help your beers, or do I need to really know my town water profile and adjust from there (something I am not looking to do/research/get into). Thanks all!
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You really need to know your water profile first.
     
    jsullivan02130 likes this.
  3. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    You can always start with RO water (basically nothing added) and add your hardness to that. It's $0.39/gal here in Indianapolis. You could steal water from work or get an RO system of your own. I'm pretty sure they start out at ~$400 if you want to install your own. (I'm waiting to hear from mikehartigan). :slight_smile:
     
  4. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    Sorry to threadjack, but how badly can you potentially screw up an all-grain beer by just turning on the tap? OR same question, but with using store-bought spring water?

    Thanks
     
  5. TheMonkfish

    TheMonkfish Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2012 Chad

    My thoughts are if you are going to invest time in a brewday it would make sense to at least get a town water report if for nothing else to understand the chlorine levels (easily adjusted with a campden tablet.) Down the road when you are ready for it (your hoppier beers may thank you) figuring adjustments is really quite straightforward - it adds about two minutes to my recipe building process.
     
    bgramer likes this.
  6. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    The mash pH could be off for some beers which will cause the conversion to be less than optimal, probably very light beers or very dark beers depending on the water.

    Flavor ions might be less than optimal for the beer being brewed. For a hoppy IPA you want a fairly high SO4 level. For a hoppy Czech Pils you want very low SO4.

    Spring water is not magic. You need to know what its profile is and think about what you are making, and then adjust accordingly.

    Water is the last thing to get under process control. It does make a difference. Brewing to style for competitions and taking the beers up a level as the OP said is the reason to do it. If you just want to make beer, well, you can make beer and not worry about it.
     
    bgramer, PortLargo and VikeMan like this.
  7. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    Thank you! For some reason I'm having a hard time getting my head around the chemistry section in How to Brew (maybe I should try reading it when I'm not at work...). I just requested the water analysis from my town, so maybe when I get it side by side it'll start to come together. I'm not going to be entering any competitions at this stage in the game, but I'm planning on stepping up to BIAB, and I just wanted to make sure I could proceed and expect adequate results with middle-of-the road pale ales to ambers for the first few attempts.
     
  8. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I brewed for years and years without doing much for water adjustment. The beers were good and I won a fair amount of awards. Now I adjust the water and the beers are better, and I win some more awards.

    Edit - keep improving your process. When you are happy with the quality of your beer, then you can stop the process improvement. Some are never happy, if you know what I mean.


     
    bgramer and sjverla like this.
  9. BeboThoughts

    BeboThoughts Zealot (559) Mar 24, 2012 Canada (ON)
    Trader

    Water is a weird area. It's not as hard as it's explained in a lot of places. I've read How to Brew's water section a dozen times but it was always a bit unclear to me. Ditto the various podcasts on water (BBR, BS). Once you start doing it, it'll get a lot clearer.

    There's a few different spreadsheets out there, but in my experience, the best one for beginners is http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/. It does away with the Residual Alkalinity that can be the most complicated part.

    Basically, get your water profile from your town/county whoever. I had to email for mine but they were super nice and emailed it back in an hour. Put your #s in the top. Add your grist. It'll show you mash pH and Chloride & Sulfate #s.These are the main focus for beginners.

    Now make additions with Gypsum, Calcium Chloride, etc. This will change the pH and the CL & SO4. Mess around with the additions for a while and you'll start to see the interactions the additions provide.

    First, make sure your pH is in range. This is the Residual Alkalinity that Palmer's spreadsheet focuses on, but it's cleaner here. Then CL/SO4. For hoppy beers, you can't go wrong with Chloride about 50 PPM & Sulfate about 150-200 PPM. I like to hit specific numbers instead of the ratios that Palmer talks about. Also, don't go too crazy with adding a ton of different stuff. I can hit almost all styles with Gypsum, CaCl, lactic acid and acid malt.

    That'll get you most of the way there. And ALWAYS get chlorine and chloramines out with campden tablets or filtering. That's the easiest way to make a rubberband-y batch!
     
    sjverla and utahbeerdude like this.
  10. Boonedog

    Boonedog Initiate (0) Apr 10, 2013 Illinois

    Lake Michigan Water?
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Probably the best single web page on the subject...
    https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge
     
    mwcullnane likes this.
  12. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts


    That calculator is awesome. And acid malt just goes in to the mash grist?
     
  13. fastenoughforphish

    fastenoughforphish Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2012 Illinois


    Thank you. This was more inline with what I was looking for. Some easy numbers for me to hit, not too much research, but a way to improve my beers a bit! Thanks!

    EDIT: And I am not sure, I live in a suburb of Chicago, but I don't actually know if that is lake michigan water. I would assume so?
     
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Ask your water authority.
     
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Correct.
     
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Edit: EZWater is a good spreadsheet. (It's the the one I use.) But I highly recommend reading and understanding the water knowledge page at the Bru'nWater site, regardless of what calculator you use. It's not rocket science, and it will help you make better beer.

    Edit Edit: Doh! Meant to edit, not reply.
     
    azorie likes this.
  17. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts


    The calculator helped solidify what I had read in How to Brew and Bru'n water (which will get reviewed over again). But being able to look at my water report, the calculator and those resources together gave necessary context for the abstract discussions.
     
  18. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    beersmith and a water report and simple pool water tester helped me.
     
  19. BeboThoughts

    BeboThoughts Zealot (559) Mar 24, 2012 Canada (ON)
    Trader

    Yeah, just sub it out for base malt. Don't use too much or it'll come through a bit in the final beer. Tops like 3%. I try and keep it around 2%
     
  20. BeboThoughts

    BeboThoughts Zealot (559) Mar 24, 2012 Canada (ON)
    Trader

    True, but it can be a bit confusing to start. I think of it like all-grain brewing. When you start, you don't really need to know about beta-glucans and how certain rests will bring out more 4VG in a hefe. You just need to hit about 152F and learn as you go. Same with water. Once you understand the basics and their effect on the pH and the final product, you can start to fill in the details and the science.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.