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Germany Bayernbiere Bought and Drunk

Discussion in 'Europe' started by boddhitree, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    Well, well, well... Bayern had a seperate Königlich Bayrische Armee until 1919. After monarchy was abolished in November 1918 units of the bavarian were spread out as far as Flanders and Georgia and it took until 1919 for all of them to return and most of them did, as units and in good order. To find Bayern turned into the most un-bavarian state imaginable, a communist republic. Where do you think those Freikorps came from that ended that sharade after barely a year ? :slight_smile: Anyways, the timeline is:
    - Bayern reluctantly let's itself be bribed into the Second German Empire in 1871
    - Bayern in a momentary lapse of reason abolishes monarchy after some 800 years in 1918
    - Bayern "joins" the lesser parts of Germany NEVER

    Besides the areas of Altbaiern (= "Old Bavaria" aka the areas that actually were Bavarian before the Napoleonic Wars) Bayrisch is alive and well in Österreich (Austria) and Südtirol (South Tyrol). Last time I looked Austria still had a standing Army :grinning:
  2. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Nearing the end of the Camba Bavaria journey until I order the next shipment. We're down to the 2 American style "Craft beers" in the box. 1st, I saved them for last because I wanted to compare them side-by-side, and 2nd, I wanted to enjoy them alone and have time to reflect without thinking of any of the other German styles waiting for me in the box.

    I couldn't decide whether this post should be in the Bayernbiere Bought and Drunk thread, or the German Craft Brew thread, so I'll post them in both, as then they'll be there as handy references for future searches on the above topics.

    First, the bottle.​
    I introduce the Pale Ale.​
    First, what I notice is the pic… evoking Marilyn Monroe, the iconic American pin up? It definitely has a 50s vibe. Also, the background is earthy, smudged, unclean almost, very in contrast to all Camba's other labels, which are full of clean lines, strong colors and overall pretty boring. No images. All the German style beers have only the stated name of the beer and, well, that's it. Here we have a more evocative image, provoking a link to the craft beer labels in the USA, I'm guessing. Anyway, it's interesting how the American styles are so different in labeling than the German styles. 2nd these beers are available only in 0.3L bottles, instead of the 0.5L bottles for almost all the German styles. More beer for less flavor? Is that the message they're sending? Or more ingredients require smaller bottles, hence higher costs require less product sold at one time, equalling more profit per bottle?​
    These little things really add up, IMO The overall image here is how they want the beer perceived by the public, and it's interesting to know the thinking behind these marketing concepts.​
    Ok… the beer. It's 5.2%, orang-ish yellow, or yellowish orange, not sure, but it's dead in the middle of those two colors, with tints of red hiding in the shadows of the glass.​
    The nose is all grapefruit, orange, lemon, typically C-hops, quite strong and lovely aroma.​
    The flavor is close to the typical American Pale Ale. Up front lots and lots of bitterness, slightly biting in a manly, aggressive manner. Yummmm. In the middle a tad sourness and astringency with lemon flavors mixed with a little, yes, just a hint of British Pale malt. In the back, again, lots of flavor. I get more bitterness in the back, Pale malt flavors, giving me the feeling I'm drinking a English Bitter while searching for the aftertaste, which is quite strongly in the direction of astringency again.​
    However, I can taste the German-ness in this beer. First, what makes this beer German is the Pils and Roasted malt flavors that underly the flavor profile. I can taste these are German malts and quite good quality, too. Second, it's mouthfeel is German, thick, romantic, warming,… in a word… süffig. It's a feeling I get from German beers, and that's present in all Camba's beers. How I love that feeling in my mouth.​
    Overall, slapping a U.S. craft beer label on the bottle doesn't make it a "craft beer," so luckily the beer lives up to the expectations provided by the label. It's an extra aggressively hopped Pale Ale that could be masquerade as a U.S. brewed APA. Is it special, unusual or outstanding for this style? No, and except for the wonderful bitterness here, it's not too different from other APAs, and that's a great, wonderful thing. See, I haven't had, not even laid eyes on an American style Pale Ale since leaving the USA, so this is an exotic taste of a lovely hopped up beer for one hopeless man stranded in Germany. Yet, it's not too far out there for a German tasting this beer for the first time, for it still has familiarity such as undertones of German malts and the mouthfeel that envelopes like a warm blanket. Put all that together, and you get a WOW beer.​
  3. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Now to the climax, for me at least, of all the Camba Bavaria beers. The IPA. It's been for me like a crescendo of great beers, one after another from them, and I hope by the most flavorful of the bunch… that I won't be disappointed.

    Again, I'll be posting this simultaneously on this thread and the German Craft Beer thread, so like there, too, please.
    First, the bottle.​

    Notice the similarity of the label to the Pale Ale. Again, we get the earthy, emotive aspect, the grungy, almost smeared use of color, monochrome again, but this time with a pic of a hop emerging from the chaos. Green is an good color for a beer in Germany that emphasizes the hops. Again, no brewery name on the label except on the neck. No words whatsoever, none. You feel the nature, yet no appeal to Heimat here, by which I mean no name written hugely on the bottom of theel of the town Camba Bavaria's located in written hugely on the bottom of the label: Truchtlaching. Above I said no words, but cleverly they pu AI PI AI on the label. It's the German phonetic pronunciation of the English letters I, P & A. Cute, eh? It gives it indeed a sense of Heimat, stating that though this is truly an American, i.e. foreign style, we're bringing you the German version designed for your tastes. At least that's what I get out it as a studied oft practicing artist and wannabe graphic artist.

    So. Does it live up to my expectations of the label? The head is huge, a dirty white foam mountain on top of an orange-yellow colored, verging on amber body that's clear as a bell. Basically the same color as the Pale Ale.

    Aroma is equally powerful. Tropical fruits, maracuyá, a little strawberry, citrus behind it…. damn this smells a lot like my Axis and Allies IPA. It does a little malt note hiding, too (but not nearly as much as mine!) So far, it's really up there in the IPA pantheon as if it were straight outta the West coast. Their website claims Holunderblüten, or elderberry flowers, but I'm not getting that. Maybe Germans would, seeing as they're more familiar with this bloom's aroma. The website said it used Cascade hops, which really comes through.

    There's lots of bitterness up front in the flavor, but not overpowering, not enough to scare the timid or newbie Germans away. The middle is some honey, but even more fruity flavors, lots and lots of tropical fruits, again, marakuyá, litchi, strawberry, all exploding on center the tongue, and also bitterness, almost biting, but not quite, just in the right amount. The back is more bitterness, a lot more bitterness, verging but never crossing the line to extreme, making you feel like a roller coaster of fake danger, just enough to scare you, but not enough to stop you from leaving your comfort zone. You get lots of malt notes here, too. I get some München malt, but more Pale malt here. It's extremely malty, and that's wonderful. The mouthfeel is like the Pale Ale, thick, warm, gemütlich,… hearty. The malt flavors and the "hearty" feeling in the mouth are the tell-tale signs of wonderfully done German beer, not an American version.

    Overall, I really really like this beer. If it weren't for the malts and mouthfeel, it'd be an ABI (for those new here: "Another Bloody IPA," Andreas Seufert of Pax Bräu.) But it goes beyond that into WOW-land for combining the best of German and American beer styles. It's a straight up IPA, not mind-blowing, but it's no slouch compared to its American brothers. It's also not an ostentatiously look-at-me chest thumper like some American versions. It's strong but humble, and allows its German roots to underscore this beer with its malty backbone that is reminiscent but not quite sweet enough to be a Märzen. Lovely. However, it's not nearly as great as Pax Bräu's Cissy IPA, for it lacks the smoke malt, the roastiness and other German flavors (Münchner & Pils malt) added bubbling up and exploding around the hop goodies, which makes it a truly transcendent beer.

    My only regret is not being able to try Camba's German IPA, which they describe on their website. I love this quote:
    or "The first taste is dominated by citrusy aroma of mandarine as well as fruity notes of banana, apricot, Physalis (?), which are bound with a powerful balanced hop bitterness and are brought forward by a special taste-sybiosis from hop flowers and the exotic."

    But what makes this beer a German IPA is the use of Herkules hops, they say. I've used this new German hop before and just recently. It's got an Alpha acid of 17.9%. Enough said?
  4. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    September's here and that means a new beer from Pax Bräu's Bierkalender. This month is a real treat: Rhöner Imperial Pilsner.

    First let's dissect that name. Die Rhön is name for the region where Pax is located, a semi-mountainous area that lies in the very northern part of Bayern. My guess is that this name is due to the malts grown in the area, which are well known in the beer industry (someone [Einhorn?] correct me if I'm wrong) alluding to the malts used as ingredients. Imperial: duh, it's 8.5%! What else would you call it? Pilsner… let's guess that it's a Pils style.

    Now the label… maybe someone can help me here… what do you think? A rhino, looking like a British lord or a old German Bürger, an upper crust type? That alludes to the Imperial part, and maybe the 8.5% butts you with the power of a rhino? Again, I love the Etiket, or label. These are absolutely revolutionary in Germany. No other brewer that I know of uses such wild and cool images on the labels. It breaks absolutely with the German beer industry SOP (standard operating procedure) and makes them unforgettable in a German setting. Again, these labels set Pax apart as being in the craft beer, á la American revolutionaries, transferred and translated into the German setting.

    I almost forgot to drink the beer. The appearance isn't typical Pils. It's close to light orange with yellow highlights, darker than a few Märzen I've come across (Paulaner Oktoberfest, anyone?) and decidedly not a weak color. The picture doesn't do it justice above. It's snow-white head sits under this appetizing color… lovely.

    The aroma is virtually a blast of Pils malt. It jumps out of the glass and doesn't let go until the end of the glass. I get some lemon and/or grapefruit floating around in the aroma, which when combined with the Pils malt is a heady smell. You can also smell the alcohol when you swirl it around, giving it a Starkbier-like or Bock-like kick to the nose.

    Before we talk taste, look at the label and check out the number of hops used: Smaragd, Centennial, Hallertauer, Tradition, Spalter Select, Beata, AND Amarillo, that's 7. Of the German hops, you see most of the usual suspects for a Pils: Hallertauer, Spalter, Tradition. Smaragd is a new German hop which I've used as well, quite bitter at 8.7% AA. Here's what I got on the internet:

    Amarillo and Centennial are well known in America but pretty uncommon in Germany, and I've never heard of them used for Pilsner beers in Germany. I had to google Beata hops. I got this from http://wiki.homebrewforums.net/index.php/Beata

    So quite an interesting combo of hops.

    The flavor is overall quite strong. The mouthfeel is not typical Pils, rather more like a Bock or Märzen in thickness - impressively viscous flowing over the tongue, hearty and meaty all at once.

    The front of the tongue gives you lots of bitterness, both of the Noble hop variety and some American bitterness. you also get some tart and astringent notes up front, going into lemon but not at quite sour.
    The middle gives way to toasted Pils malts and more bitterness, slightly biting on the tongue. This isn't a Norddeutschpils, but it's a powerhouse of bitterness over the middle, maybe the effect of Smaragd, Centennial or Beata, but it's not too much Noble hoppy flavor. Nonetheless, the closer the glass gets to empty, the more assertive the Noble hops are and the more I pick them up here on my tongue and overall. The back is typically Pils in flavor, but also with a caramel, sweeter side, mixing though with fruity flavors of orange, apricot, a little grapefruit. Also in the back you get the punch of alcohol, not overwhelming but just enough to tell you this is an Imperial, damn it. It's not at a Märzen-type caramel, but it's not only a Pils malt flavor, but a mix of 30/70 here. The aftertaste is citrus hops with sweet Pils malts and a oh so slight burn of alcohol. Mostly the high alcohol is hidden but it peeks out at times, which is good, but it's not so strong that you wish you could age it 6 months before drinking.

    Overall, this may be the best Pils I've ever ever had. Really. It's complex as all hell, throwing citrus, orangey and fruity flavors, toasty pils and some caramel, hard Noble hop bitterness and alcohol flavors at you in different parts of the tongue. And then there's the aroma! This part is important, for when you drink it, you could be fooled into not thinking it's a Pils, but the nose tells you yes, we're still drinking a Pils. It's an wonderful adventure simply sloshing around the mouth looking for the different flavors with every sip. This is another WOWOWOW beer. WOW. Like almost all of Andreas Seufert's beers, I've never tasted anything like this. If someone has come across a beer like this, let me know, for this again is the perfect cross of German, British and American styles to make a unique beer that really stands up, salutes then rocks out with complex flavors and aroma. Then, the aftertaste is there like a siren luring you to take the next sip.
  5. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Received my 9er of Augustiner's Oktoberfestbier today. I eagerly await the Wilderer Dunkel (Brauerei Eck) that will be coming hopefully this week some time.

    AUGUSTINER'S OKTOBERFESTBIER, 500 ml bottle poured into a 400 ml Willibecher. Best before 2/2014.


    First, as has been protocol of late, the label: The artwork is credited as being a scene from the 1926 Oktoberfest. I have no idea why 1926's Oktoberfest was so important to Augustiner, but it sure looked like a nice day. I hope I get that lucky with the weather next week. Second, they say that Augustiner was founded in 1328. 1328! That is hard for an American to comprehend. That's, like, four (?) generations before Christopher Columbus was even born?! I will have to go to Oktoberfest in 2028, when they turn 700 years old. Hey wait, that means they are 685 years old this year. Good enough for me! (now to find a gift...)

    Appearance - a beautiful STRAW/LIGHT GOLDEN color that oddly enough looks a touch amber in certain light (seriously!). But "straw" or "light gold" is the correct descriptor here, I think.
    Aroma - very good, very much like Augustiner's Edelstoff. Bready, cracker-like.
    Taste - A bit sharp at 6.0% ABV. I have finally "come around" on their Helles, so now this seems a little much for me. Hard to do an Oktoberfest comparison that includes Augustiner, which was just released (well after the others have been sitting around for a month and are now marked for discount). Still, it's hard for me to explain just how good that first Löwenbräu tasted. This effort falls a little short of that.
    Mouthfeel - I never know what to put for Mouthfeel. Soft and creamy?
    Overall - still an incredibly drinkable beer at 6.0%. Germans can make those süffige beers, can't they?

    Prost, looking forward to eight more!
  6. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,953) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    I was over for Spaten's 600th Birthday and the only ones who seemed to care at all were the Ami tourists. :grinning:
    Gutes_Bier likes this.
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,017) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    MJT, thanks for your review!

    I took note of: “Aroma - very good, very much like Augustiner's Edelstoff. Bready, cracker-like.” It would be interesting to conduct a side-by-side evaluation of Augustiner Edelstoff and Augustiner Oktoberfest Bier since I suspect that those two beers are very similar (but just a suspicion).

    You mentioned:” Mouthfeel - I never know what to put for Mouthfeel.” The typical descriptors used for mouthfeel are: thin, medium and thick (or full). I am sure that Tony will provide ‘better’ education on this aspect. Tony is the ‘master’ of mouthfeel.



    P.S. Another descriptor sometimes used to describe a thick/full mouthfeel is chewy. To use this in a sentence: Tony likes to chew his beers!:wink:
    boddhitree and Gutes_Bier like this.
  8. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,953) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    And there's a good lesson in the difference between a Wiesn and Helles. The Wiesn will always be more dry and have a touch of that alcohol bite. The Helles will be soft and smooth drinking from start to finish.

    I'm having a Paulaner Wiesn at the moment and I can taste the same malts Paulaner uses in all of their beers, but the dryness and alcohol warming tell me I have a Festbier in my glass -- even the nose belies a dry, peppery alcohol character.
    herrburgess and Gutes_Bier like this.
  9. CoverMePorkins

    CoverMePorkins Initiate (0) Sep 17, 2012 Delaware
    Beer Trader

    Late to the party on this beer but I finally picked this up last week. I wish I could have had it a couple of months ago but good anyways.

    Gutes_Bier, boddhitree and JHDStein like this.
  10. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Not at all! In fact, I think you are only the 2nd person on these boards to have tried it. Boddhitree is ahead of the curve on Pax Bräu. I am looking very much to try this beer. I have only Westvleteren 12 for trade, but I'm willing to do what I can within reason! I am seriously considering renting a car and driving to Obereberbach or where ever the heck that brewery is. Smoked IPA? Yes, please!
    Bierman9 and CoverMePorkins like this.
  11. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Did it still have a great aroma? Or did it lose a lot due to it's age? The brew date should be on the neck. Did it taste like I described it in my review? And where did you get it?

    Finally, the color of the label is different, blue background instead of yellow/green. That may mean a 2nd release this year.
  12. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    In solidarity with my German beery brothers and sisters, I will make Cissy my one and only "Want".
    CoverMePorkins likes this.
  13. CoverMePorkins

    CoverMePorkins Initiate (0) Sep 17, 2012 Delaware
    Beer Trader

    The aroma was a 5. Just incredible. The taste was not as good but that was probably due to age. The best by date was 30 September which shows the age of the beer. I got the hops and malts but did not get the smoke flavor that you spoke of in your review. I do smoke cigs however so that probably does affect my taste.

    I bought the beer at a bazaar at Ramstein AFB. Pax Brau had both the blue and yellow labels. I went with the blue as it was the most hop forward. As an American in Germany I like my hop forward beer and it is hard to find. I did not check the date on the yellow label for the date. I bought the one that tasted better during the tasting. I also bought the Mailbock and hefe. They were sold out of the Imperial Pils which I really wanted to try.

    They will be back in the area in 5 weeks. I will be buying the Imperial Honey Stout again and anything else I like. What do you recommend from the September/November lineup?
  14. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    What I'm getting from this is that I need to join the Air Force in a hurry.
  15. CoverMePorkins

    CoverMePorkins Initiate (0) Sep 17, 2012 Delaware
    Beer Trader

    You are in the Heidelberg area, correct? If you want something from Pax Brau let me know if we can work something out. I have more Westy 12 than I know what to do with. Bad problem. right? My location in Rheinland Pfalz is close to Belgium.
    Gutes_Bier likes this.
  16. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Thank you for the offer. I don't even know what I could bring for a trade, and besides my logistics are somewhat complicated these days. I will keep you in mind, though, and thanks again for the offer.
  17. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Was given the following 3 as a present by Timosen this week, so hey, let's test them side by side. I've had all 3 of these before, so I'm really interested how they are next to each to each other.

    1. Schneider Weisse's Tap 7 Unser Original (SW7)
    2. Keiler Bier's Keiler Weißbier (from Lohr am Main, between Miltenberg and Bamberg.) (KWB)
    3. Brauerei Faust's Weizen Hefe Hell (WHH)
    Here's what they look like in the glass side by side:
    SW7: banana, bubblegum, wheat malt, really strong, hearty aroma, maybe from a more maltier presence in the aroma
    KWB: ditto, but less hearty
    WHH: least aroma of all 3, but when swirled around, ditto SW7

    Appearance: All cloudy.
    Even though the pic about doesn't represent the colors perfectly, the KWB & WHH are almost identical, with the KWB a tad darker and less orange, but little bit of brown in it, whereas SW7 is brown with orange tints.

    SW7: Lots of banana and some definite sourness up front, a combo of sweet wheat malts and little bitterness in the middle, and lots of orange, sweet banana and cloves mixed up with the wheat malt dryness.

    KWB: Citrus, sourness and banana up front, again a combo of sweet malts and here a hint of bitterness, and in the back, lots of orange, cloves and banana with a sweeter, intense aftertaste.

    WHH: Lots of banana and some caramel, sweet malt up front, some bitterness in the middle with wheat dryness, and in the back, orange, lemon, banana, cloves and tad sour and a sweet, dry aftertaste.

    Almost identical. All are quite dry, which is the wheat malt talking. They're all thick, but SW7 takes the cake for being the thickest and meatiest, followed by KWB and then WHH being the thinnest of the 3.

    Hard to differentiate them, really, really really hard here. From a aroma and mouthfeel standpoint, SW7 wins hands down, but it's not a huge difference. They're all really great. Flavor-wise, Faust is sweeter, Keiler is more citrus/orangey with more cloves, and Schneiders is as malty with more caramel as it's sweet. In reality, I'd never be able to pick these out in a blind taste test, no matter what.
    1. SW7, liked the mouthfeel, extra maltiness, aroma, more complexity than the rest and fuller flavor to boot.
    2. WHH, just liked the extra citrus, sour notes but it didn't have
    3. KWB, the least complex of the 3, not bad but compared to the others, it's more like a one hit wonder.
    This is really like choosing the favorite of your triplet children. Thank god I'm not a tasting judge. Complexity is good.

    A caveat… I'm not a fan of Weizen that's all banana and bubble gummy, luckily the bubblegum was spared some here, but I still prefer a Kristalweizen that's lemony and zesty.
  18. seanyfo

    seanyfo Meyvn (1,020) Jan 2, 2006 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    I love weizens that have that thick creamy mouthfeel with a less aggressive carbonation. Ive always found Weihenstephan & Schneider to have great mouthfeels. The one that springs to mind for being really disappointing recently was Mahrs Weisse, a lot thinner and aggressive carbonation, couldnt stand it!
    boddhitree likes this.
  19. JHDStein

    JHDStein Initiate (29) Aug 16, 2013 Germany

    I've been enjoying this thread for a long time, and it has been a wonderful resource for information about some of the more difficult-to-find German beers. So I thought I would do my part and drop in a quick review about a "unique" beer that I picked up at the local supermarket: Welde Jahrgangsbier.

    Welde appears to do one of these "special" beers every year (hence the "jahrgang" aspect), and they like advertising the foreign nature of the hops that they use. I think that is the unifying theme perhaps? Last year's beer had Argentinian hops, and was actually rather poor in my opinion. This year's advertises South African hops, though they don't specify as to which sort in particular.

    In any event, on to the review. Though the picture doesn't do it justice, this is actually a touch lighter in color, more of a dark yellow than an actual amber. The head wasn't non-existent per se, but it was rather shy and needed coaxing (sometimes being bad at pouring beer can be an asset...). Nor does the head stick around very long. Aroma was decent, sort of floral with citrus in there as well. If I had to put it in one word, I would say fresh. At moments it verged on artificial cleaner "fresh", but mostly it was too subdued for that. The flavor is a mixture between a Wit beer and a weizenbock, if that makes sense. This is advertised as Reinheitsgebot, ("Natürlich streng nach dem Deutschen Reinheitsgebot"), so there are no actual spices added, but the flavor is a touch spicy, along with some banana, orange and general citrus flavors. For some reason, it reminded me of carrot cake as I was drinking it. But maybe I am just hungry... A bit of bitterness, but nothing too strong. Decent malt backbone in there as well, you don't really notice it right away, but it's still there, balancing out the citrus aspects.

    All in all, it's fairly good. Much better than last year's. I wouldn't say suffig, but very drinkable. At 9 euros for 0.75 liters, it's fairly pricey for this neck of the woods, especially when compared to "normal" beers in this area. But I have to applaud the experiment and the willingness to try something different. If last year's experience is any indication, the bottles will linger in the supermarkets around here for a couple of months. But then again, last year's beer wasn't this good.
  20. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Thanks for posting! It's funny, I was in Rewe today and saw this one myself. I thought about picking it up to review today but circumstances prevented it. If you go far enough back in this very thread you will see that I reviewed last year's version. I remember noting for the group how odd it was that the RHG was not mentioned at all on the label, which makes the "Natürlich streng nach dem RHG" comment stand out even more. It sounds like this is a wheat beer? Odd that Welde's own website currently shows the Argentinian Hopfen bottle. The description sounds like what I remember from last year's version as well. More research needed...
    JHDStein likes this.
  21. JHDStein

    JHDStein Initiate (29) Aug 16, 2013 Germany

    The ingredients show both Gerstenmalz and Weizenmalz, but the wheat presence here was fairly strong for me. It's good. In my opinion it was better than last year's version. However, that probably needs to be taken with a grain of salt: reading over my notes from the 2013 version, my main complaint wasn't with the flavors, rather that it just didn't come together for me. It just didn't work. Individual tastes obviously will vary.

    What impresses me, though, as you noted in your review as well, is that Welde actually is trying something different, new and decidedly "non-German" (notwithstanding the RHG reference this year). I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say that it's a sign of a coming wave of German "changes" or a "movement", but it does seem to be a small piece of evidence that brewers here are stepping out of their traditional categories a bit more, and testing the waters to see what works and what they can profitably market.
    danfue and einhorn like this.
  22. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Here is what Andreas Seufert wrote on the wall of the Pax Bräu's Facebook page:

    My translation:

    Also, this was posted by the designer of all of Pax's labels:

    at the FB page of Tales of Dead Earth, a graphic novelist and illustrator, with this post:
    I can't wait to see the new beers planned and the labels for them also.
    Gutes_Bier and seanyfo like this.
  23. seanyfo

    seanyfo Meyvn (1,020) Jan 2, 2006 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    A new style for me last night - Steinbier! Big thank you to Erzengel for this one!

    Brauerei Leikeim - Original Steinbier, abv 5.8%


    Appearance - Amber body with excellent clarity. Creamy white head producing excellent lacing and retention

    Aroma - Lots of caramel, toasted malts. Perhaps some cinder toffee, hint of vanilla.

    Taste - Very malt dominant as expected. Sweeter notes of caramel in the beginning and becoming more toasty/treacle like with a touch of hop bitterness in the full finish.

    Mouthfeel - Medium carbonation, medium/full body. Sits well on the tongue

    Overall a pleasant surprise! I definitely prefer bier in the malty end of the spectrum and this let me have my fix. Nice complexity with a solid mouthfeel. If rocks tasted this good, I would eat my house!
  24. seanyfo

    seanyfo Meyvn (1,020) Jan 2, 2006 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    A new brewery for me today:

    Dampfbierbrauerei Zwiesel - from the town of Zwiesel in Niederbayern

    Sampling of their Kellerbier - Zwickl Naturbier abv 5.5%


    Appearance - Unfiltered/cloudy pale amber body with a rocky head - produces a good lace with a sustainable head retention.

    Aroma - I'm getting a touch of honey sweetness up front, some pepperiness and a bit of herbal hoppiness.

    Taste - A bit of a rough grainy quality with honey sweetness coming through which is a bit too dominant. Touch of pepperiness in a clumsy sticky finish. It reminds me more of a poor maibock due to the sweetness/malt quality.

    Mouthfeel - a low medium natural carbonation. It's very sticky and coats the palate.

    Overall, didn't enjoy this one much. Too sweet with a poor mouthfeel. Lacked the dry finish/refreshing quality of a classic kellerbier.

    Will review a few more biers from this brewery soon, hopefully better things to come!

    boddhitree and Gutes_Bier like this.
  25. seanyfo

    seanyfo Meyvn (1,020) Jan 2, 2006 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Bier for today is the Steinhauer Weisse by Brauerei Göller which is located in Ziel am Main in Unterfranken!

    According to the website this Hefeweizen has been awarded Gold status for 2004/2005/2006 by the Deutsche Landwirtschafts-Gesellschaft.

    The rauchbier by Göller is one of my favourites, so I'm expecting good things!


    Appearance - Cloudy medium amber body, bit of chill haze as you can see in the picture (wasn't served in any way too cold). Creamy head producing average retention/lacing.

    Aroma - Banana very much in the foreground, hint of peppery spice coming through.

    Taste - Biscuity sweet malt hint up front, fruity esters coming in - touch of banana with a hint of apple zestiness afterwards. Apple is a nice quality, not in a young underdeveloped way, more refreshing kellerbier like. Clean finish.

    Mouthfeel - Medium to high carbonation with good body (not light, not meaty, just solid). If nitpicking, compared to a world class weizen (Weihenstephaner), I'd say the carbonation is a touch too aggressive but I'm being really fussy here.

    Overall it's a great Weizen. Nice refreshing flavour complexity with a great mouthfeel making it sehr süffig! As we say in Scotland, it didn't touch the sides.

  26. seanyfo

    seanyfo Meyvn (1,020) Jan 2, 2006 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Here is a German language question!

    Perhaps Boddhitree can give me an answer!:slight_smile:

    Why is Lower Bavaria - Niederbayern and Lower Franconia - Unterfranken?

    What's the Nieder/Unter difference?
  27. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    There's no difference really. The upper/lower-prefix is applied to a lot of place names in German. "Lower" sometimes is Nieder-... and sometimes it's Unter-... The meaning is the same.
    boddhitree likes this.
  28. seanyfo

    seanyfo Meyvn (1,020) Jan 2, 2006 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Thanks for that
  29. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,017) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    I was at a local beer bar this past weekend and to my delight there was a firkin on the bar: it was a cask of Weissenohe Kellerbier. I ordered one and it was a very tasty brew. It had a nice golden amber color and the nose and flavor was dominated by doughy malt. The hops were very much in the background on this beer. A very pleasant beer to drink!

    They also had Mahrs Pilsner on tap so I ordered one of those. It was served in a 0.4 liter ceramic mug with “Mahrs Brau” embossed on it. This beer was all about the Pilsner malt, very low hopping. This beer had a sweetish aspect to it. Another enjoyable beer.

    And the pièce de résistance (is there a German equivalent to this expression?) was Pliny the Elder on tap. That beer was fresh and I could almost smell the hop aroma when it was still in the bartender’s hand. That beer was wow, wow, wow!

    A very good night of beer drinking!

  30. spartan1979

    spartan1979 Aspirant (299) Dec 29, 2005 Missouri

    We are planning on going to Weißenohe when we are there in three weeks. I'll have try the Kellerbier!
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  31. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (298) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Don't be too fooled by the DLG medals - these are a type of paid-for marketing awards that many food and beverage purveyors receive.
    boddhitree likes this.
  32. seanyfo

    seanyfo Meyvn (1,020) Jan 2, 2006 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Thanks for the info, that's good to know
  33. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    One of the Bavarian breweries I regularly buy beer from, is Zötler from Rettenberg in the Allgäu region. It's a family run business and they claim to be the oldest family business still operating in Germany. Their "1447 Naturtrüb" alludes to the founding year of the brewery!
    It's really one of my favorite beers of the Kellerbier-category. Very spicy, somewhat floral, with a notable touch of hops, but a broad yeast aroma. After having sampled some German (I)PAs this year, it occured to me now that this kind of Kellerbier (if done in this way) comes quite close to the idea of a Pale Ale. It only has 22 IBUs, but still the mentioned spicyness and aroma really remind me strongly of a Pale Ale. Another Kellerbier that also reminded me of this, was the one by Riegele. Both are highly recommended!

    boddhitree, seanyfo, einhorn and 3 others like this.
  34. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    I've seen Zötler around from time to time and always pass it by because I'm unsure. If I see this, I will definitely pick it up. Thanks for the review!
  35. seanyfo

    seanyfo Meyvn (1,020) Jan 2, 2006 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    My review for today is from Titting in Oberbayern.

    Brauerei Gutmann's Hefeweizen abv 5.2%


    Appearance - Cloudy apple juice blonde with a creamy white heading producing excellent retention/lacing.

    Aroma - Banana heavy but with a very noticeable underlying wheaty/biscuity malt aroma. Vanilla kicking in as it warms up a bit. One of the nicest aroma's from a weizen I can remember.

    Taste - Sweet wheaty biscuity malts dominating up front which just slowly fade away into the background of the clean finish. Simple and makes its mark

    Mouthfeel - Carbonation is bang on, not too aggressive but lively enough to be refreshing. Body is an excellent thickness, I don't want to say meaty lol, its more delicate than that but certainly not wimpy!

    Overall, it's a delight to drink. A lovely wheaty malt profile that lingers on and on complimented by excellent mouthfeel. It transports me back to a long summer, longing for a bier like this to drink under the shade of a chestnut tree.

    einhorn likes this.
  36. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (298) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Gutmann is one of my favorites.
    herrburgess likes this.
  37. Crusader

    Crusader Initiate (198) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden

    DLG gold medals show up on the packaging of some Swedish macro beers, for some reason they seem to appear on the worst examples that Swedish macro beer has to offer.
  38. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (298) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    I believe this was the gold medal that Sam Adams Light referred to when they claimed to have won gold in a German "competition" a few years back.
  39. seanyfo

    seanyfo Meyvn (1,020) Jan 2, 2006 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    My second bier from the Dampfbierbrauerei Zwiesel.

    Arber Spezial, 5.5% abv

    I couldn't find a lot of info on the style this is supposed to be, drinking it I would have said it's somewhere between a Kellerbier and a Helles.


    Appearance - Apple juice gold with a slight hue. Creamy white head producing average head retention and lacing.

    Aroma - Cloudy fresh apple juice first, a grainy quality with hints of manuka honey (Reason i say Manuka is i had some yesterday and it reminded me of that)

    Taste - Applely sweetness with the honey hint coming through, with a hint of biscuity malt coming through to a semi dry finish with minimal hop character if any. Refreshing. Perhaps a tea like tannin quality is lingering on as it warms.

    Mouthfeel - Soft carbonation with a creamy medium body, sits well in the stomach.

    Had the dry fruity quality of a kellerbier in a subtle way with a soft creamy mouthfeel and flavour profile of a helles, maybe perhaps even reminiscent of a soft czech pils? Can't say im an expert in that style, but the biers i had in Prague certainly all retained this soft creamy texture.

    Overall, enjoyed it a lot, pick a bottle up if you see it. Definitely tastier than the Zwick'l i had earlier.

    Gutes_Bier likes this.
  40. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    Had this one when I was in the region of Zwiesel two years ago. As for its style, I would classify it as an Export. Many Bavarian breweries brew Exports, but just don't name them as such, but rather as "Spezial", "Gold", etc.
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