Germany Bayernbiere Bought and Drunk

Discussion in 'Europe' started by boddhitree, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Poo-Bah (1,716) Jan 24, 2011 United Kingdom (England)

    Doesn't seem so appetising when you call it sausage porn... o_O
    boddhitree likes this.
  2. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    After taking a day off to argue on another thread, I'm back to drinking and writing. Today it's the Frankenwälder Burgerbräu 1464 Wintertrunk. On their homepage they say they went through bankruptcy court from 2008 to 2010, saved by a citizen of the town Naila Walid Aziz when he bought and restructured the brewery. Interesting that his name doesn't sound very Bavarian. It's good that immigrants could save such a long tradition of brewing. Also in 2010, they drew up a partnership with the Regensburger Brauerei Bischofshof, which belongs to Weltenburger Klosterbrauere.

    On the bottle it states that Bereits im Jahre 1464 verlieh Markgraf Johann IV. die Braurechte an die Gemeinde Naila. Die Tradition der einstigen Kommunbrauer wird bis heute durch die Bürgerbräu Naila GmbH aufrecht erhalten. (Already in 1464 the Count Johann the IV gave the brewing right to the community of Naila. The tradition of this once communalbrewer is still until today kept up by the Bürgerbräu Naila.) It also states that "we brew a real winter beer from an old recipe for the cold season." Also, they mention hops extract as an ingredient. :(

    Hope the above pic from their website whets your whistle for this beer, as well as the pic below.

    So how does it taste? It's 5.6%, however usually Winter or Winterfestbiere are a little stronger, so I'm glad it's not that strong. The foam is tan in color, not your usual white as a Pils, and aroma is strong caramel, bready, sweet malts. The color is bright amber, a little darker than copper with red and almost orange tints, making it look robust. The first tastes are full-bodied Caramünchen malts, some Melanoiden and a slight hint at a Bockbier flavor. It's also quite hoppy, bitter hops only, in the back of the tongue, as well as a tangy feel that helps the beer not be overly sweet and cloying. It's a nice sipper but I find the bitterness in the back is starting to overpower once it's warmed up, which is not what I'm quite looking for in a Winter drink, almost bringing it back to Pils territory. It's also in the Goldilocks zone of not too thick and not too thin mouthfeel.

    Overall, very bready, caramel flavors and bitterness combined, quite good but I feel something is not quite there, something I can't really put my finger on, but it's missing something, maybe the balance between the bitterness and caramel maltiness. Anyway, I enjoyed it and wish I had bought more than 1 bottle.
    [​IMG]Jadgwurst... with beer... yum.
    timosen and Gutes_Bier like this.
  3. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    Sounds pretty darned delicious. If you manage to put your finger on what you feel is missing, do let us know, as this one seems intriguing IMO. Prost, und frohe Weihnachten!
    boddhitree likes this.
  4. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Prost, cheers and Frohes Weihnachten.
  5. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    We do accept immigrants on occasion, you know ? :)

    And Bischhofshof belongs to the Bisphoric of Regensburg, same as the brewery in Weltenburg (but it's part of the monastery so it's really run by the Abbot of Weltenburg) but are run independent for the past centuries.
  6. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (389) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    OK, here goes my first attempt at posting a photo. Since this counts as Bayernbiere bought (online, via Schlenkerla's website) and drunk, I got these guys just in time for Christmas:

  7. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Please tell us what the beer tasted like! Please.
  8. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    After a break to visit my g/f's family for Christmas, I'm back, and I hate to say this, but I had some really disappointing beer. I have a vivid memory from the mid-80s of drinking a very hoppy Veltins Pils in a Kneipe in Frankfurt and thinking, "hey, damn good beer, my new fav." But now, I don't know, it was just blah.

    Anyway, the next in this series is another Sonnen Bräu beer, the Eber-Weisse: my first Weissbier of this thread.
    Here's my pic taken of the beer I'm drinking right now:
    And below is one I found floating on someone's website. There are many words in German that use pig or sow (connoting "extremely") to denote great taste or greatness of any sort, so maybe that explains the pig on the label? Schweinegut (pig-great), sau-lecker (pig-delicious) are 2 I can think of, but there's also saumäßig (lousy, or beastly, or rotten). Maybe that's what they could be hinting at with this picture.
    Besides the fun picture of a pig drinking a Weissbier on the label, the label on the top states "Yeasty, Drinkable, Top-Fermenting" and on the side or (bottom) part I find the best, "Bottle-fermented," which for me says live yeast to possibly harvest for my homebrew. On the back label is a bigger surprise for me. Besides the normal BS about RHG, it states it uses Aroma hops. However, that might just mean "aroma hops" were used instead of "bittering hops" as the main hop additions. After drinking so many fränkische Biere without a leaf of aroma hops and lots of Noble hop bitterness, it should be nice to get variety.

    It opened with a bang, yes, it's bottle fermented, and I had to close the flip top immediately to avoid a minor mess. The beer pours like a regular Weisse, with a light orangish tinge to a nice deep, dark yellow. Foam is huge of course, but dissipated and laid down by the time these last 2 sentences were typed. It's not see-through clear, but not of a hefe-weizen thickness. It looks like a normal protein haze of some of my homebrews that are a signature of bottle fermentation with some yeast in suspension. It's not bubbling up CO2 like many Weissbiere, but that may be because I'm drinking it out of a Pils glass.

    The aroma is wheat full-bore with orange marmelade lemon and a hint of bubblegum, yet no trace of aroma hops :(. The initial tastes is has a hint of sourness, spritzy but not overly so like a Hefeweizen. The wheat is as noticable as the Pils malt is. The taste has very, very light bubblegum but more in the direction of citrus, but not lemon, and finally, more of a sweet aftertaste. Basically, it's a sweet and sour taste that lingers without any hint of hops. In summer, I can imagine it to be a great thirst quencher of a warm, sunny day. The mouthfeel is not think nor thin, really a happy medium.

    Overall, I think I would've like it better sitting in the shade of tree with a little sweat from a nice warm day. Normally, I wouldn't expect sourness in a Weissbier but with the Eber-Weisse, it fits in nicely. I would give it a 4 out of 5.
    russpowell, timosen and Gutes_Bier like this.
  9. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (389) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Well normally I wouldn't - to call my reviews "amateurish" would be to flatter me - but since you are leading by example here I will give it a shot.


    Aroma: Smoke is present, but not the dominant "Waiter-There's-A-Bacon-In-This-Beer" smell of Schlenkerla's Märzen or Urbock. Either more lightly smoked or just a difference between the Oak and the Beechwood. 4/5
    Visual: Even before the tulip glass, I always felt this was the best looking beer I've ever had. Beautiful mahogany with a nice head after an aggressive pour. 5/5
    Taste: What can I say? Sweet and to-style for a Dopplebock, except smoked. Delicious. No hint of the 8% alcohol. 5/5
    Mouthfeel: Christ, I don't know. ?/5
    Overall: Highly recommended to any fan of Dopplebocks or Smoked Beers. A must-try, really.

    Unfortunately no Wurst to picture.

    CwrwAmByth and boddhitree like this.
  10. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    That is where we tradtitionally drink our Weizen :)
  11. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Why do you think I wrote it? ;)
  12. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    This is the last beer in this series. Actually, there's one more, a Brauerei Faust Jahrgangsbock 2009, but I have only one bottle (0.75L though) of it and I want to share it with a good friend. I'll try to take notes when I drink that one, but until then, the following is the last beer.

    It's my 2nd beer from Rothenbach Brauerei, a Aufsesser Heller Bock (Lighter Bock). It's 6.5% and hard to find in an internet search. I often find the regular, darker Bock, but not this one. I'll translate a sentence from the back label:
    "A strong beer from the good old time, spicy/full-flavored and stout/bold in taste. A long maturation in a cold and dark Lagerkeller guarantees the balanced and excellent taste, guaranteed by the Braumeister of Ausesser Brauerei."​

    Now, on with the show, but first, the obligatory money shot of the best wurst in town, Fleischwurst on a piece of wood.

    Aroma is weak, maybe a little München malts, but not much else. Color is deep golden with a bright white crown of foam sitting on top even a few minutes after the pour. So far, it could pass for a Pils, though a rich, dark golden one. The taste is... wow... very malty, - sweet and decent amount of smoke for a backbone. It's thick, feels like dreaming of a warm blanket wrapping around your tongue. It also has a decent amount of Noble bittering hops to go with the smoke. Overall, it's a wonderful balance of sweet maltiness of a Märzen with a bitter and smokey front and after taste, though neither of these flavors overwhelms. The aftertaste, though, is a really rich, sweet Münchener malt, really prominent. I have to say, I'm usually not fond of smoke nor German bitter noble hops, but this a great beer!

    Overall, in ranking these beers:
    1. Paxbräu Vollbier
    2. Aufsesser Heller Bock
    3. Fürst Wallerstein Winter Böckle
    4. Friedenfelser Zoigl Schwarzer Ritter
    5. all the rest.
    Hope you enjoyed this series! I also hope more of you continue what I've started. Take pics and post them along with your opinion of aroma, taste, etc. Cheers.
    russpowell, timosen, einhorn and 2 others like this.
  13. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    This is an excellent description of just a few of the overall characteristics that make Franconian beer so wonderful. Well done...and welcome! Hope you get to make the trip soon to try the 100s of others that will similarly wow you ;) Prost!
    boddhitree likes this.
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,777) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Below is a message that I sent to boddhitree. He thought it was worthy of inclusion in this thread.

    “Since you took the time to discuss and describe all of the Bavarian beers you have been drinking lately I figured I would share a related beer drinking experience.

    So, yesterday I was eating some Organic Blue Corn Tortilla Chips with fresh Pico de Gallo and I thought to myself: I wonder how a Kellerbier (Zwickel) would go with this? I recognize that my choice of food selection is not as elegant as yours but ….

    So, I popped open my bottle of Furst Wallerstein Zwickel. It is a large bottle (500 ml) so I had to get my biggest beer glass for this. It poured a nice tawny color and it had the unmistakable smell of a Franconian Kellerbier; a very pleasant combination of bready malt, subtle hops and some ‘yeasty’ smell. I haven’t even taken a sip and I thought to myself: this is going to be very good. My first sip realized my expectation; this beer is very, very good. I could describe the taste/flavors in my own words but your words fit the bill appropriately:

    “The aroma is both lightly bread-malty & lightly hoppy, so they were right on the aroma hops, probably Tettnanger, Hersbrücker or another noble hop. The taste is both malty and lightly noble-hoppy, nothing terribly wowing, but really, really easy to drink. There's no one flavor that overpowers, and they blend together very well! Also the mouthfeel is neither too thick or too thin, maybe exactly in the Goldilocks zone needed to make a very süffige (pleasant to drink, drinkable), creamy beer. Damn, I'm usually not a Pils fan, but this is maltier than a Pils and less hoppy than, too. But then again, the warmer it gets, the bitterer the aftertaste. I can really dig this beer.”

    As I posted in a previous post I have had a few Franconian Kellerbiers and the Furst Wallerstein is right up there! If I had to rank the Franconian Kellerbiers I suppose it would be:

    1. Triumph Aldstadt Lager
    2. Furst Wallerstein Zwickel
    3. Mahr's Ungespundet-hefetrüb – cask
    4. Southampton Keller Pils – 2011
    5. Mahr's Ungespundet-hefetrüb – draft
    6. Mahr's Ungespundet-hefetrüb – bottle

    After pondering the above list I think that Triumph Aldstadt makes the top of the list due to the freshness factor; noting like drinking a beer at the source (brewpub).

    One of my pet peeves with German brewed beers is that they often don’t have dates (either brewed on dates or best by dates). A few months ago I bought a bottle of Schlenkerla Marzen but I almost didn’t since there are no dates on that bottle. The Furst Wallerstein beer has two dates:

    · Best before: Sept. 24, 2013
    · Production code: 267A (It think 267 = 267 day of the year which is Sept. 23, 2012).

    So the ‘good news’ is that my beer was 3 months old. That is older than I prefer but not too old in the big scheme of things. The ‘bad news’ is that the Furst Wallerstein brewery thinks that a one year timeframe is acceptable. From my perspective, one year for a lower gravity lager is too long!!

    Anyhow, I look forward to reading more about your Bavarian beer journey!

    boddhitree likes this.
  15. EdTheEdge

    EdTheEdge Disciple (390) Mar 26, 2011 California

    All I can say is: Yum!
  16. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,867) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    I don't know, I've had an awful lot of Helles and Märzen on warm days under the nice shade of German chestnut trees -- and damned if it wasn't one of the best experiences anyone can enjoy!
    cu29 likes this.
  17. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany


    Today--- the last one, from Brauhaus Faust, from Miltenberg. Drinking it with timosen, a real German who I have forced to brew beer. We're now drinking it and.... first, it exploded when I opened the flip-top bottle, beer all over my MacBook Air!!! That's ok, because it shows it was conditioned in the bottle. 7%, brewed in 2009, bottle #423 from 879, with Hallertauer Perle and cold lagered in Wild Turkey whiskey casks for 12 weeks in their de-humidified mountain-side cellar.

    Basically a Doppelbock aged in whiskey oak casks! mmmmmm... even the idea makes my mouth water.
    The aroma is a little on the molassesy side, sweet, apricots and figs, and almost like a Belgian Abbey Dubbel or Trippel. The color is dark brown with red tints. Timosen said, "very mild!" For a German that's high praise. The taste is very sweet, almost verging on a Belgian Dubbel, but still with caramel, German Münchner malt tones. It also has a dry aftertaste with a tad bitterness in the back of the tongue. The whiskey notes are pronounced but not overpowering, just enough to tell you it's there. So basically, it tastes like a 80 year old whiskey mixed with a 10 year old abbey beer in a 30:70 ratio. This is one great beer, and Timosen agrees, so it's not only my world-weary, jaded palate that says this. After a few sips, it's starting to get a bit cloyingly sweet, with licorice, though. We have a 0.75L bottle to drink, so I'm glad I got another person to help me finish it. Basically, great as an aperitif or with cake, preferably a Frankfurter Kranz, since we're in FfM.
    Sorry, today no sausage porn, only KUCHEN PORNO.
    russpowell and Gutes_Bier like this.
  18. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    OK, be honest: did either/both of you crack open a couple of "regular" beers before/after this whisky-aged one? ;)

    Also: Mmmmm, Frankfurter Kranz....
  19. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (389) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Allow me! New Year's Zungenwurst (tongue sausage)(pig tongue) with stinky French cheese and Schlenkerla's Dopplebock. I thoroughly enjoyed one of these items!

  20. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (389) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Quiet here recently, so I will break with protocol and post something I did not order over the internet, rather I just walked over to my local bottle shop and grabbed one (shoulda grabbed two :() . Tonight I paired it with that famous delicacy out of Hamburg.

    Best by: 20/08/2013
    Aroma: Smells good. Molassesy? 4/5
    Visual: Pretty perfect. 5/5
    Taste: See "Visual". 5/5
    Mouthfeel: ?/5
    Overall: Shoulda grabbed two :mad:

  21. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (389) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Oops! The above photo is of course the Kloster Andechs Dopplebock Dunkel.
  22. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (292) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Good news for Andechs fans - in a few months they will begin exporting to the US. Info to follow.
    jcb7472 likes this.
  23. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (389) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Not at the expense of their German fans, I hope! Looking forward to reading the info.
  24. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,867) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    :D Good one!
    Gutes_Bier likes this.
  25. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (389) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    It's getting so quiet around here I'm debating sending Boddhitree a case of beers to review for us. Here is the Porter from the Kulturbrauerei Heidelberg. I picked up a liter "zum Mitnehmen" and left it outside on the windowsill to chill. It is colder than I realized tonight, but at least it didn't freeze. In lieu of a review, I will quote my wife (herself a fan of porters), "It's not the best porter I've ever had, but it's by far the best German porter I've ever had." In defense of German porters everywhere, I will say that she's only ever had two, and one of them was Lausitzer's.


  26. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (292) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    In other words, the tallest pygmy. LOL. - still glad to see styles like that being brewed at all.
  27. cu29

    cu29 Initiate (31) Sep 26, 2005 Wisconsin

    Well, it sure LOOKS good.....
    steveh likes this.
  28. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (389) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    I'm finishing the liter now (half last night, half now). It's actually quite good. Some of Kulturbrauerei's seasonals, specifically their Spring Wheat, have been very pleasant surprises (it's in the tourist district). I'll put this in that category.
  29. LBerges

    LBerges Initiate (0) Feb 14, 2010 Germany

    Lindenbräu is one of my all-time favourites.
    I had it at the brewery three years ago, and now it is in my fridge all the time.[​IMG]
    boddhitree likes this.
  30. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Poo-Bah (1,716) Jan 24, 2011 United Kingdom (England)

    Just the plain old Marzen but with some nice German sausage (admittedly the cheap supermarket stuff... British supermarket at that...)
    russpowell, Gutes_Bier and boddhitree like this.
  31. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (2,949) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Please start a new thread with this information so that it is easier to spot when you provide the follow up. Thanks!
  32. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (292) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Will do. Nothing new at this point in time.
  33. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (389) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    I was reading the "Best German Weiss" thread in the general forum and a few people mentioned Erdinger. My grocery store carries it and I always pass it by for some reason...maybe because my grocery store also carries Weihenstephaner. Anyway, the recommendations inspired me to pick up an Ur-Weisse and a Dunkel. I've learned that German brewers will use the "Ur-" prefix with beers they are proud of. It means "source" or "original", but is a not-quite-overt appeal to the traditional German. Anyway, paired tonight with Cordon Bleu (vom Schwein, natürlich) and some spätzle.


    Appearance: a very nice, hazy orange with the typical wheat beer head. 4/5
    Aroma: More clovey than banana-y. I'm not good at this. 3/5
    Taste: Pretty good. I would not put it above some of the Home-Run hitters, but a solid wheat beer. 3/5
    Mouthfeel: 3/5. Maybe a little thin?
    Overall: Could recommend. Would definitely try it again, especially at this price-point. Like many German beers, a good value.
    Pairing: 4/5. Hard to go wrong with German beer and German food.

  34. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Just got a shipment in today from 4 out of 5 boxes arrived, which I'll be reviewing in the near future. But here are some pics to whet your appetite.
    russpowell and CwrwAmByth like this.
  35. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    I'm sure he'd fight you tooth and nail on that, hahaha.
  36. Robert_N

    Robert_N Initiate (0) Apr 10, 2012 United Kingdom (Wales)

    Hey, wonder if you guys can help?
    I am trying to called Biershop Bayern but I dont understand the phone number, it has a / in it, what does this mean?
    08031/ 22043-63
  37. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    From the U.S. you'd call 011 49 8031 220 4363
    From Europe 00 49 8031 220 4363
    Robert_N likes this.
  38. Robert_N

    Robert_N Initiate (0) Apr 10, 2012 United Kingdom (Wales)

    Vielen Dank!
  39. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,777) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    I can’t wait to read your review of the Furst Wallerstein beer (which style did you get?).

    I had the Furst Wallerstrein Zwickel and I thought it was very, very good.

  40. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (292) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    My wife used to live in Nördlingen, so I had all the Wallerstein beers and found them to be pretty good. I believe that things have even improved in the last 5 years.

    As far as Erdinger goes, I always found the dunkel hefeweizen to be the best of their selection. The "normal" hefe was good and I always liked supporting an independent, but check out the dunkel if you get a chance. The Ur-weisse is new in my book.
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