Germany Bayernbiere Bought and Drunk

Discussion in 'Europe' started by boddhitree, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Interesting you should say that....that night I picked up two beers, in fact, the Urweisse and the Dunkel Hefeweizen. The dark to me was a little disappointing. Just one man's opinion, but I feel like there are better out there in that style. I was a little surprised to see "Röstmalzbier" as an ingredient. Is that the RHG-compliant coloring agent used in dark lagers? It would make sense, I remember thinking it tasted a lot more like a dark lager than other dark wheats I've had, and also the color was much darker than, for example, Schneider's Tap 7 or Weihenstephaner's Dunkel Hefe. Anyway, YMMV, my preference was with the Urweisse.
  2. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,972) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    I remember Erdinger being the only other Weizen we could find, other than Hacker-Pschorr, back in the mid to late '80s. Nowadays it seems to wither on the shelf and is stale most times you see it. Sad, like to try it fresh again.
  3. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    Erdinger = Fernsehbier
    boddhitree likes this.
  4. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    I got a 5th package today, so now I can start. Fortunately or unfortunately, I got only 5 beers to review. Each box from Biershop Bayern has 9 bottles of the same beer. Not bad for enjoying more than one of each beer, but not as many to review, either.

    As requested,
    I will start with the Fürst Wallerstein's Landsknecht-Bier, which they call a Dunkles Kellerbier. Previously, I had their Winterböckle, and loved it. You can reread my review here. I loved it because the:
    Thus, my expectations are really high.
    On the back, it says, "Bayern in year 1598. The Fürstbrauhaus [Prince's brew house] Oettingen-Wallerstein exercises for the first time his rights of brewing. That was the birth hour of a princely beer-enjoyment."
    Notice the best buy date is Dec. 10, 2013, 10:34 am.

    The color is dark amber, brown with hints of red but still a very bright beer. The aroma is pure malt, heady Müchner and Melanoiden, bready malt aromas as if it the malts were being boiled in the glass! No hints of hops at all in the aroma. I could stop now and the strength of this aroma might be enough to satisfy, but my mouth is beginning to anticipate it's time for enjoyment, and let's go.

    mmmm... kinda disappointment all over the tongue. It's a flat, thin taste, though don't get me wrong, the beer is well carbonated and still has a mini white head after 5 minutes after the pour. The taste doesn't deliver on the same malt flavor that was promised in the aroma. No München malt taste, though it's still malty, it's got a slight acidic flavor. Now, I've had a homebrew that was skunked with a lactobacillus (lactic acid) infection, and this is not at all similar, but still, it's like a roasted bitterness, as if they used black malts that were not de-bittered. There's some noble hops bitterness involved, too, but overall, it's not in a good way.

    The aftertaste has light licorice to it, and I can't really decide if it's a beer that works better with sweet or salty food. Hold on, while I rummage through the kitchen to figure this conundrum out. With Leberkäs: yuck. With leftover Christmas cookies that looked similar to this, yum!

    I still can't decide if I like this beer or not. The aroma is out-of-this-world wonderful, but the flavor neither matches nor has other things going for it. Overall, it's a thin, slightly sour and bitter flavor with highly roasted malts in the forefront of the taste. Maybe it would taste better on a warm day, sweat pouring and the beer colder than I drink it, which is about 60 - 65F. I would also not label this beer süffig (quaffable/easy-drinker).
    cu29 and Gutes_Bier like this.
  5. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    First, I'm not really feeling the love I need to continue this. Thank you cu29 and mjtierney2 for the likes. I'm gonna need a few more from others to help motivate me. If you want me to continue the reviews with all this pics, please tell me or at minimum hit the like thingy. I find it hard to believe that only 2 out of all y'all like this stuff. Otherwise, I'll simply send the reviews to those who hit like. I don't know if you realize how much effort and research I put into these, so how 'bout some shuga' for the author? If I sound down on this, it may be because of the continually cold (27F/-5C) and gray weather. Or that I have no other life than beer. :wink:

    Enough bitchin' & moanin'. On with the show. As I was so disappointed with our previous contestant, the Fürst Wallerstein Landknecht-Bier, I need to go to an old friend for comfort: Brauerei Faust. Previously, I reviewed their Jahrgangsbock 2009,
    and I've visited their brewery, where I fell in love with their Faust Auswanderer Bier 1849 (Imp.IPA).
    Today's contestant is their Schwartzviertler Dunkel. [As an aside, I noticed Brauerei Faust finally updated their website to acknowledge the existence of their specialty beers, as well as having their own online shop now, where you can get their "Rare Beers" from them cheaper than from Biershop Bayern.]

    Here is a pic of my bottle:
    On the back label:
    I'm not so wild about the statement of ingredients which lists hop extracts. I don't care what other breweries, craft or otherwise, use, but to me this is selling out for profit. Also notice the best buy date is July 3, 2013, only 6 months from now.

    Let's see if their hype stands up to reality. I read about it the Schwarzviertler Dunkel in this month's Brew Your Own, which doesn't have an online link, yet, but probably will after their next month's issue comes out. All I could find is their blurb for the article:
    They published a recipe for this beer, which some dude with a blog tried his hand at brewing, and he posts the recipe for 5 gals:
    • 20 ounces Munich Malt
    • 9 ounces Smoked Malt
    • 3 ounces Carafa III Malt
    • 6.6 pound Munich liquid malt extract
    • 1 ounce Perle hops (8.9% alpha acid)
    • White Labs 833 German Bock Yeast
    In the BYO article, they say the name Schwarzviertler comes from the fact that is the name of the neighborhood brewery, which sits under sandstone cliff, not allowing the sun to get in, hence the "shady" above. Schwarz = black, Viertel = neighborhood/quarter, so Schwarzviertler = someone/thing who comes from the "black neighborhood." In Miltenberg, which I've visited a few times over the years, and is only 50 minutes by car from FfM, this basically is a picturesque, narrow road of old, 400 or less years old, Fachwerkhaüser, or half-timbered houses, about
    a mile long.

    Here's a pic I took out the 6th floor of the brewery, the view out the window and you can see the mt. next to the brewery. You can also see the mondern silos.
    And a view from the same floor out the opposite window, notice Main river, the same one that flows through FfM and into the Rhein.
    Another pic out that same window shows the beauty of Miltenberg's old city. The old chimney for the brewery can be seen.
    Another where you can see down the street where Brauerei Faust is:

    Now let's drink this beer. The color is dark brown amber with lots of red tints. The color is not as dark as I expected, but it's fun to look through. Aroma is full of malts, Müncher and Pils malts with caramel and a little hops.
    The taste... wow! Malty with Pils taste but so much more. A tiny hint of smoke and some sweet, somewhat chocolatey aftertaste. Bitterness is there, not so much from hops, but it's still there. It's not too thin, either. It's got a great mouth-feel, giving a cozy, lovely feel over the tongue. Overall, a lovely, very complex beer.

    The only disappointment is that my girlfriend likes this beer so much that I have to open another bottle just to finish this taste-test. Again, wow... it's sweet, with light chocolate hints, malts and a bit of smoke, but not the majority taste, with just enough hop bitterness to balance it well. It doesn't taste at all like a Pils at all, but it doesn't taste like like an ale, but really close. I love this beer and I hope everyone gets to chance to drink it.

    The regular beers from Faust may not be world beaters, but the Schwarzviertler is a really unique beer. It's worth ordering or finding a bottle and experiencing this wonderful beer.
  6. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    I'm all about the love. I visited Miltenberg once, but Faust had closed for the day and I never got to purchase any of their beers. Perhaps I will make another run someday soon. The Auswanderer was for sale at the World's Oldest Pub place, but we didn't stop in for a meal and I didn't get to try any.
    boddhitree likes this.
  7. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    "The World's Oldest Pub" is zum Riesen. The food is great there. One of the better schnitzels and other German food. Here is the site. My pic of it. It's the white/blue building in the middle fo the pic.
    The beer menu:
    FAUST-Riesen Spezial – Amber in colour, a special beer with a malt bouquet. Full-bodied with a mild hint of hops.

    FAUST-Pils – A straw-blond, bottom-fermented, refreshing and drinkable brew that is full-bodied with a subtle hop aroma, fine effervescence, and a delicately lingering hop finish.

    FAUST-Schwarzviertler – A fiery, full-bodied very dark brew made from select specialty malts with just a touch of roastiness, an almost smoky note of caramel and bitter chocolate, as well as a dry finish.

    FAUST-Kräusen – A robust, full-bodied, golden, yeast-turbid, refreshing brew with fine maltiness, floral hoppiness and a faint bouquet of honey.

    FAUST-Hefeweizen Hell – A golden, mild, yeast-turbid, top-fermented brew with plenty of pale wheat malt in the grist. It is spritzy and crisp with notes of banana, cloves and honey from the yeast.

    FAUST-Hefeweizen Dunkel – A dark, yeast-turbid, top-fermented brew made mostly from dark wheat malt. Though full-bodied, it is soft and spritzy with a rich balance of malt and yeast aromas. The result is a complex beer with flavors that are reminiscent of grapefruit, almonds and apricot.

    FAUST-Hefe-Weizen Non-Alcoholic –Spritzy, crisp and mild, with slightly fruity yeast aromas. Non-alcoholic, refreshing, low-cal. Rich in vitamines, all-natural, and isotonic: The ideal leasure-time brew for the active life.

    FAUST-Doppelbock – A deep-malty, strong brew of burnt sienna color with a complex blend of sherry, caramel, honey and apricot notes that end in
    a rich yet surprisingly dry finish.

    FAUST- Leicht (Light) – A golden-yellow, refreshingly effervescent, bottom-fermented brew with a delicate mouthfeel, a lingering hop finish and about 40% less alcohol and calories than standard brews.

    FAUST-Radler – This very German mix of pale lager and lemonade is a refreshing, effervescent quaffing beverage and a favorite at beer fests on hot summer days.

    FAUST-Russ – Specially combined, a stunning mixture of full-bodied Hefeweizen (yeast beer) and refreshing carbonated lemonade.

    No mention of the Auswanderer Beer.
    spartan1979 likes this.
  8. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Disciple (390) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    If I remember correctly, and this was April of 2012 so maybe not, the Auswanderer was on the chalkboards and maybe the little paper stand-up things they put on tables to advertise the specialty. I definitely saw it advertised, though, because I remember being disappointed that I didn't get a chance to try it.
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,112) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    “Aroma is full of malts, Müncher and Pils malts with caramel and a little hops.
    The taste... wow! Malty with Pils taste but so much more. A tiny hint of smoke and some sweet, somewhat chocolatey aftertaste. Bitterness is there, not so much from hops, but it's still there. It's not too thin, either. It's got a great mouth-feel, giving a cozy, lovely feel over the tongue. Overall, a lovely, very complex beer.”

    I just wanted to say two things:

    1. I salivated when I read this description!
    2. I LOVE YOU, MAN!

    spartan1979 and boddhitree like this.
  10. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    Oh yeah ? How old would that be ? :slight_smile:
  11. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    I know it sounds almost like a place in a Tolkien novel but wouldn't "Dark Quarter" or "Shadow Quarter" be a rather more fitting translation ? With less p.c. tripwire to boot ? :slight_smile:
  12. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    What, you didn't look at the link I provided?
    IF that was the case, then the name would've been dunkles Viertel, or Schattenviertel. There are reasons we choose certain words in languages, in since in German the word black doesn't have the same emotional baggage it does in English, why overburden a translation with unnecessary complexity? I felt confident non-Germans would be intelligent enough to get this. After all, it's called a Dunkles not a Schwarzbier.

    Also, the bit I wrote about the meaning of the name came from BYO, a magazine published in America for Americans.
  13. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    To my utter shame I must admit, no, I have not. And 12th Century is bloody old indeed.

    Yes and no. You're right here of course but I tried to add a sense (or clarification thereof rather) of the original meaning of the naming of that quarter. I did not mean to step on your toes. :slight_smile:
    boddhitree likes this.
  14. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Sorry, I'm a language teacher and have to explain differences between vocabulary words every day. Sorry, I could talk about linguistics all day, but when translating languages there's rarely a 1-to-1 relationship between words of different language, so you're right, the word black has connotations, allusions in English that it doesn't have in German. Nonetheless, when a language has 2 or more words that mean similar things, linguistics predicts there will be an "economy of language," meaning one will naturally die out if they mean the same thing, and the fact that they both still exist and are in regular use means either, we need 2+ different words due to the repetitive use (think: thus, therefore, consequently, or recently & lately) or they will have slightly different nuances, connotations or situations when used (think: neighborhood, quarter, area, location, etc.)

    Ok, carry on the beer talk,...... please.:grimacing:
  15. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (298) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Don't be too critical of using hop extracts. A lot of brewers use them, including some of the best US craft brewers (Russian River uses extract). There is a certain consistency to using extract and some brewers say that it give a less "scratchy" bitter.
  16. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (298) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    On a separate note, I don't think that there are a whole lot of threads in the entire German forum with nearly 1,600 views as of today. That should be proof enough that we "like" your posts!
  17. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    I have a (maybe not altogether scientific) theory on that "economy of language" issue. Perhaps it's more of an addition. I have noticed over the long decades of my life that there are basically two kinds of languages and they develop at vastly different speed. The language of a trader society (like English or Dutch) tends to economize a LOT faster than the language of a farmer society (like German). This is even more interesting when you consider that Dutch is really just another German dialect that was raised to language level by a society in need of drawing a border.

    When I translate German into English I often find myself falling back on rather archaic vocabulary (hence my Tolkien reference in the beginning) because modern English simply doesn't have an exact expression of the several layers of meaning an ancient Germanic term may have (and usually DOES have). Which is a bit sad, though understandable in the context of paragraph 1 :slight_smile:
  18. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,972) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Outstanding photos. Interesting that you were drinking here... on St. Patrick's Day! :slight_smile:
  19. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Thanks for the compliment. Too bad St. Patricks day is completely unknown in Germany except in Irish Pubs.
  20. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,972) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    And that doesn't surprise me at all! :wink:
  21. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,972) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Of course, I totally forgot that 2 days later is St. Joseph's Day -- the start of Starkbierzeit, no? Maybe the middle of the Zeit?
  22. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Starkbierzeit? Are you confusing Frankfurt with München? I'd never heard of Starkbierzeit until I heard it on BA. Is that when the Doppelbocks come out? Or the strong German winter/Christmas beers, such as a 7.8% Corolus Doppelbock from Binding (a.k.a. Radeburger :angry:) ? Otherwise, I've never heard of Starkbierzeit. I haven't a clue. Do they have this in the normal (non-Bayern) part of Germany? :wink: And what's St. Joseph Day? Does that have anything to do with Fasching?
    Stahlsturm likes this.
  23. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (298) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Are you serious about not knowing about the 5th (Bavarian) season, Starkbierzeit? If so, you are not alone. When I moved to Munich in 1996 (I had been living in Germany since 1992) I wasn't aware of the tradition and went with my classmates to Nockherberg to experience this very bayerisches Bierfest for the first time. I went 3 times thereafter and truly enjoyed not competing with Japanese, Americans and Aussies for spots to sit.
    steveh and Stahlsturm like this.
  24. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    They do not. "Starkbierzeit" is a catholic tradition so it's only observed in the beer drinking part of southern Germany. It is traditionally the "silent" time between the end of "Fasching" and "Easter" which is a bit like the catholic version of Ramadan. People weren't supposed to eat meat and live in silent contemplation and Bavarian monks found a way to still get something healthy and nutritious to the people that was in compliance with the Church's teachings. Starkbier.

    It may have been all over Germany once but the Protestant fundamentalist Al-Quaida did away with all these "worldly traditions" after the Reformation and ruined it for the north and the middle of Germany. Why do you think they hate Bavaria so much ? :slight_smile: They see what they have lost and covet it greatly :grinning:
    JackHorzempa and boddhitree like this.
  25. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,972) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Not at all, but if I was in Frankfurt on March 17th, I'd be planning a train ride south by the 19th! :grinning:
    The Doppelbocks... and probably all the amateurs! :wink:
  26. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    boddhitree likes this.
  27. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Excellent summary. I thought it something to do with those damn Catholics. Now it makes complete sense. And it was a outstanding explanation.

    I guess what got under my skin was that many 'Mericans think is München/Bayern IS Germany. It ain't. As Stahlsturm implied, Bayern isn't even really considered German by the rest of the country, and more than Austria is. The only problem is that they're connected by the hip and can't disconnect even if they wanted to. "Bayer" is used synonymously for redneck in almost all parts of Germany. And I'm sure Bavarians feel equal enmity towards all other parts of Germany. Think Texan (I'm from Texas.) but with Dirndls and Lederhosen.

    But still, just because there is a "Bierfest" in München doesn't mean anyone else has a clue about it or ever heard of it. OK, everyone's heard of Oktoberfest, but that's because it's become so commercialized and famous internationally that they now have Oktoberfests (complete with bayrische tablecovers, flags, music, clothing, but with the local beer) in FfM and other German cities. Sorry steveh, it struck me as somewhat of an assumption that anyone would have heard of Starkbierfest outside of a Bayern just because one's in Germany.

    Germany is just as diverse regionally as any other country, and it kinda gets under my craw that 'Mericans are so Bayern-centric. To tell the truth, I was born in München but have visited there only once since then, and that was 27 years ago for a weekend to visit university friends, and I haven't had the urge to return, ever! The problem with Bayern is that it's filled with Bayer. :stuck_out_tongue: However, I'm returning in early March for the Braukunst Live 2013, for me mainly to drink the foreign (non-German) beers presented.

    There are how many Bundesländer (states) in Germany? Each has it's own unique beer culture and history, though most of it has died out except in Bayern. So just like Rothenburg ob der Tauber is a tourist trap, it's justly so because it's managed to keep a part of it's history intact, Bayern is the same: beer tourist trap to be avoided at all costs. Just like there are soooooo many small towns that also have a long ancient history to present, though without the intact city wall, they're not on the tourist map, just like other parts of Germany have beer-related things to discover. I guess my peeve is... touries (tourist) in general, and biertouries are the worst, for they're drunk as well as generally horribly obnoxious, and then to "glorify" that... :angry: and assuming... :grimacing:. Ok... I'll calm down, I just found my medicine. :flushed:
    Thanks for making my point for me.

    BTW, I've been too busy to review the 3 other beers I have set up... I'll try to do it later this week or this weekend.
  28. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,972) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Hah -- of course. But I take no credit for anything other than finding the link. There was a Milwaukee Journal article as well, but guess where it was focused?

    My only reason for linking was to lend a little background to Bodd's comment:
    By the way -- feel free to find a good link for us!
  29. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    Thanks :slight_smile:

    It is while Bayern pays the vast majority of the German Federal budget. They can't afford to let us go, half of Germany would turn into an instant 3rd World country.

    They look at Bavaria in envy, we look at them with pity. They hate us because we still have what they lost. Identity.

    Did you want to stay on my good side ? :angry:

    Which partly it is Bayern's fault actually, after all we forced the RHG on them as a condition of joining back in 1871. That has turned out well, got us 2 World Wars, 1 Civil War (in 1919), several vast inflations and a continous influx of aliens from the North who then sit around and complain that Bayern is so Bayrisch... *moan*

    You're welcome :slight_smile:
  30. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    I'm aware of that :stuck_out_tongue:
    boddhitree likes this.
  31. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,112) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    “Think Texan (I'm from Texas.) but with Dirndls and Lederhosen.”

    Sounds like Wurstfest in New Braunfels, Texas to me!:slight_smile:
    drtth and einhorn like this.
  32. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (298) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    While I am impressed with the fest and accordion player, plastic cups and pitchers still get a THUMBS DOWN!
  33. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,112) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    “ …plastic cups and pitchers still get a THUMBS DOWN!”

    Aw, c’mon, this is Texas we are talking about!:wink:

    On a more serious note the event is extremely well attended (a mob scene on weekend evenings) and there are a lot of small children in attendance. I can understand why the organizers insist upon plastic vs. glass for safety reasons.


    P.S. They always have Shiner Oktoberfest on draft and this year's version was very tasty!
  34. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,247) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Oh my, does that ever bring back some old memories....
  35. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,112) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Hopefully pleasant memories!

    I have attended Wurstfest every year the past 5 or so years (I have family in Texas that I visit) and I have always had a great time. The organizers of Wurstfest do a great job getting musical acts plus the food & drink is always enjoyable. Not to mention that you are ‘encouraged ‘ to wear funny hats. I bought my sister a Phanatic dangle hat this year and she was constantly asked: where did you get that hat!:slight_smile:

  36. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    I'm not sure I would go to something called "Wurstfest", hahaha.
    PancakeMcWaffles likes this.
  37. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,247) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Pleasant indeed. Loved the Texas hill country and the things I found and did there back in the day....
  38. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,972) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Chicago's Berghoff restaurant used to call their Oktoberfest celebration "The Wurst Party of the Year." :grinning:
  39. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,112) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    There is that sense of humor!:slight_smile:
  40. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Though not about beer... but y'all know my weakness for sausages and Wurstporno:

    Here in FfM (and probably every German town, too) there are curry wurst Imbisses (food stand) named, in English, mind you, The Best Wurst in Town. Nice play on words, I say, but what's ironic is very few people (Germans) get the joke. So it's just us ex-pats who giggle uncontrollably in our head when we see it.
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