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Germany Bayernbiere Bought and Drunk

Discussion in 'Europe' started by boddhitree, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    "Marke Weltenburger" is easy to get, real Weltenburger is actually really hard to get but I'm honestly not sure how much difference there is between the two. I should make a back to back tasting of those 2...
  2. boddhitree

    boddhitree Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    I've been out of action and haven't been able to write up some of the beers I've been meaning to. I've been drinking them but haven't been able to write them up. So here's our latest contestant: Streck's Brauhaus Ostheimer Dunkel. Bought it through Biershop Bayern.
    Color is dark amber, almost fully brown with hints of red under bright vanilla-colored head. Aroma is pretty typical German: roasted malts, Münchner malts, but additionally is a wonderful sweetness with light chocolate/licorice mix.

    The flavor is slightly bitter, noble hops like Tettnanger, Hersbrücke or Spalte with a sour tang. In the back there's lots of roasted malt flavor, tasting very much like the aroma. It's more like a Pils with lots of roasted malts. It's a nice beer, malty sweet and some bitterness together, as if a Pils and Märzen were blended together.
    einhorn and Gutes_Bier like this.
  3. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Okay -- a little clarification here please; roasted malt in the same character as Köstritzer (or Guinness, for that matter)? Or more toasted (as in toasted bread) malt as you'll taste in an Optimator or Celebrator?

    I ask because I know that some Dunkels will be more roasted in character than others, so I'm just wondering where this one falls.
  4. boddhitree

    boddhitree Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Good question. It's NOT a black malt flavor, which gives Dunkels and Stouts their color, but a toasty, sweet flavor from roasted malt (Röstmalz)...it's commonly used in Bocks. What I found most interesting was that the aroma was practically only this sweet roasted malt but flavor was bitterer, with some sour, strangely…with a sweet roasted flavor. Also interesting, neither this beer nor the brewery are listed in BA.
  5. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    With that bitterness, I have to wonder if they aren't using some black malt -- it's what gives stout and Schwarzbier that sort of coffee-character.

    I found that curious too, you ought to add it.
  6. boddhitree

    boddhitree Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    I agree with you. I feel they added some black malt with lots of Roasted Malt and a good amount of Sauermalz (Acid Malt), which might explain the sourness, but actually simply lowers the pH. It's a highly complex beer, which is what I was trying to get at, unlike most Dunkles, which are simply a darkened Pils.

    No time and too lazy, maybe someone else will volunteer?
  7. Bierman9

    Bierman9 Dec 20, 2001 New Hampshire
    Beer Trader

    Sure, why not.... It's in the queue.... Wish I was still a Beerfly guide...

    steveh likes this.
  8. Bierman9

    Bierman9 Dec 20, 2001 New Hampshire
    Beer Trader

    Here ya go.... http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/30945
    boddhitree likes this.
  9. boddhitree

    boddhitree Apr 13, 2008 Germany

  10. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    I think the only trouble with adding the beers is that you're expected to give a mini-review. I may have missed a way around that when I did this one.
  11. boddhitree

    boddhitree Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Breitenlesau from Krug Bräu

    [I've had this beer before, but only at this one particular Italian restaurant in Sachsenhausen, Frankfurt: La Traviata. The pasta is hand made fresh daily, and the pizza's are baked in wood-burning ovens. And, for as long as I've been in FfM, since 2008, they serve this beer on tap. I eat here only about twice a year, but not because I don't like the beer/food; rather, I rarely have time to eat anything at a sit-down place. I usually grab a Döner or a pizza at a couple of stand-up places to save time between my lessons, if I have any.]

    I've never seen this beer anywhere else, so I thought I'd review it, though I've heard they have it on tap at Fichte Kränzi in Sachsenhausen, a Apfelweinlokal (or Äppelwoi - Äpfelwein - Äppelwein - Appelwein - Eppelwei) or Applewine restaurant, but I didn't see it when I was there because I go there only for the Apfelwein. Their website lists all the pubs/restaurants where it can be found in Germany.

    Krug Bräu seems to be from a Kaff in a tiny town between Bamberg and Bayreuth: Waischenfeld, Ortsteil (village) Breitlesau in Franken. The Brewery-Inn also doubles as a dance hall that focuses on live rock bands.

    Their website calls it a Dunkeles Lagerbier. 5% ABV, "a special lager beer, brewed with a particular/special mashing technique and different special malts. The recipe for success: the beer is brewed to a taste that not too sweet nor too bitter and tastes great to all guests from the North Sea to the south."
    So, here's what my beer looked like:

    Color: dark amber, orange tints, signs of Melanoiden or Münchner malt.
    Aroma: malty, sweet, typical German malty aroma for a Fränkisches beer.
    Taste: malty sweet, slightly sour on the front of the tongue; bitter on the sides, slightly sweet - a definable Münchner malt addition, maybe some black malt, but overall, a huge typical Pilsen malt flavor, slightly dry finish of Pils yeast. I expected a little more sweetness after getting the aroma. Bitterness of hops comes through clear on 2nd 0.5L glass. It's not very different from the Fürst Wallerstein's Landsknecht-Bier,which I reviewed here.

    A mix of Pils with a little sweet component of a Bayerisches Märzen. However, if you taste only from the front, you get too much sourness, so to enjoy this beer, put the glass on top of the front of tongue and wash it over the middle and back for the sweetness to register at all. That's also when you'll notice the hops. But why do I need to do this simply to enjoy this beer?

    Ate with orecchiette noodles with salsiccia and turnip greens.

    Gutes_Bier and einhorn like this.
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Beer Trader

    I've had the Krug Brau stuff. Not bad.Thanks for the review.

    ...and, generally, I find I don't have a problem with Kellerbier hitting the front of my tongue ;)
  13. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    Krugbräu is our brew of choice when the wife and I are at one of our yearly Heavy Metal festivals because the Getränkemarkt right next to the hotel we're staying in has it. When our own cases are starting to deplete we re-munition with Krugbräu. I like it quite a bit myself and it has stood the test in many situations.
    ~ Warm, cold, icy.
    ~ For breakfast, lunch and in the middle of the night.
    ~ At +35°C and at -5°C (the festival is in April so climate varies wildly over the years...).
    ~ With pretty much everything you can eat out of a trunk or burn over a charcoal fire.
    ~ Drunk, sober, hungover, you name it... :)
  14. boddhitree

    boddhitree Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Just a tease of what arrived in the mail this week. Cost me a pretty penny, but I hope it'll be worth every cent. I'm not sure you can enlarge these pics and see the labels, but the amount of hops in these beers looks staggering, as well as the other ingredients. Yes, I'm living large.
    Gutes_Bier likes this.
  15. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Now That's what I'm lookin' for.
  16. einhorn

    einhorn Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Just cracked my first Weltenburger Barock Dunkel, 4.7% ABV. Clearly a step above the helles and Anno 1050, both whiich disappointed. Dunel shows fantastic colour, great caramel flavors without being cloying, smooth and easy drinking, I could knock back a lot of these. Is it any wonder that the German styles are undoubtedly the best session beers on the planet? Highly recommended if you find it.

    The Asam Bock is on deck tomorrow night. Prost ihr Säcke!
    boddhitree likes this.
  17. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    The Asam Bock is really delicious, IMO. You might also like (if you have access to them) Weissenohe's Bonafatius Dunkel, which was OK on its own but really went well with my German dinner of bratwurst and spätzle, and Kloster Scheyern's Dopplebock Dunkel.
  18. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois


    From that review:
    *That was a reference to making comparisons to other Doppels.

    I really do enjoy the Weltenburg beers.
    einhorn likes this.
  19. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    It's so much better after you hicked from Kelheim to Weltenburg. Even more fun it is to, after several Mass in their famous beer garden, to ride back in a "Zille" which is basically a canoe. They are normally used to ferry people across the Donau at the monastery who ended up walking there along the wrong bank but for an extra 10 the boat owners can usually be convinced to take you back to Kelheim. It's a 300 Meter walk from the boat landing to the Schneider Brauhaus and maybe 1000 Meters to the Frischeisen Brauerei in Affecking.
    steveh and Bierman9 like this.
  20. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    All this talk of Weltenburger, I had to pick up a few on my way home tonight.

    Einhorn, which Helles did you sample? I'm drinking the Barock Hell right now and it's about the closest to a Bavarian Helles I've had in a bottled beer here in the U.S. Rich, bready nose. Bready, lightly sweet to dry flavor -- just a great example of the style.

    I also liked the Anno for being such a great example, so I'm sort of surprised at (and sorry for) your disappointment.
  21. einhorn

    einhorn Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    No need to feel sorry - as we all know, taste is subjective. I had the Urtyp Hell, not the Barock, and I'm not sure of the differences in the two beers. As I recall, the beer seemed too crisp, and when I think of Münchner Helles, I think of a maltier brew than this was. Also, I wonder at the low ABV, I would like to see a helles at least over 5%, something beefier at 5.5 would have been appropriate IMO. It may also be a mistake that I use Augustiner Edelstoff as "the bar", I consider it to be the best.

    The 1050 was just OK, I guess going by the name I wanted/I was expecting a deeper, richer beer. Again, like the helles, it wasn't bad beer, it just didn't "wow" me like the hefeweizen did.

    In the meantime, I had the Asam Bock which I must admit, these words were o-so-true from your review

    This is not Optimator or Salvator, nor do I think it should be, this is a tasty, smooth drinking beer. As so many breweries in Germany make their own interpretation of a style, I can't second-guess this one* as it's very tasty.

    Solid stuff, could use a bit more complexity, but I enjoyed it immensely with my Bratwurst, Sauerkraut and Bratkartoffeln.
  22. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    I have the 1050 slated for a revisit tonight, I'll try to add some thoughts then, but I had the Wintertraum last night and -- while a bit stale, was pretty good (again).

    I checked my reviews and see that I really liked the Dunkelweizen, but wasn't so impressed by the ordinary Weizen. To be honest, I have the feeling that my source isn't carrying the freshest stock at all times.

    And I didn't see the Dunkel or Bock in stock anymore. :(
  23. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    9 inches of (wet) snow yesterday afternoon -- didn't get to the beer. o_O Is it Spring yet?
  24. einhorn

    einhorn Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    I had a 2nd bottle of the 1050 again yesterday and I stand by my original analysis - decent beer, subtle caramel tones, but nothing spectacular. I wanted to like it more. Just one man's opinion.
  25. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    I'll meet you on the Donau and buy you a Weizen, you can reciprocate with an Anno! :)
    einhorn likes this.
  26. einhorn

    einhorn Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    In the meantime, I could send you a fresh sample. Maybe you could send something cool from your area to reciprocate.
  27. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    I went to a Getränkemarkt yesterday to pick up a sample case for boddhitree and while I was there I also took a close look at the stickers on the variety of Weltenburger they had there. As it turns out, all Weltenburger except the Barock Dunkel and the Asam Bock are brewed by Bischofshof in Regensburg. Before those 2 started cooperating those 2 beers were also the only Weltenburger beers I even knew. I have a feeling that it's basically just Bischofshof with a different label...
    boddhitree likes this.
  28. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Sounds like research is in order.

    There are always questions when one brewery contracts another's beers, but often times you find out that the cooperation is pretty respectful and the "contractor" will follow the "contractee's" recipe well. Then again, if it saves money to just brew a larger batch and relabel, who knows?
  29. steveh

    steveh Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    If you had any of the Oktoberfest, I could be drawn into negotiations!
  30. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    I've never even seen that one and I live less than 20 miles from the brewery...
  31. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Mar 21, 2005 Germany

    I doubt I'll bother... :p :D
  32. einhorn

    einhorn Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Having seen a lot of this in Germany, I would tend to agree with this assumption. Only problem is, I didn't see a Bischofshof beer on the webpage which was similar to this.
  33. spartan1979

    spartan1979 Dec 29, 2005 Missouri

    So, their best two beers are still brewed at the Klosterbrauerei? Makes sense. We were there in 2010 and got a tour of the brewery. He served us some Asam Bock straight out of the lagering tank. It was wonderful!
    boddhitree likes this.
  34. boddhitree

    boddhitree Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Back on the beer report horse again. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get to the beers Stahlsturm delivered to my doorstep until I get these last 2 beers I ordered from Biershop Bayern out of the way. The contestant is today all in yellow, a Maxbrauerei Bohemian Pilsner.

    First off, I like the look of their lineup. Their website lists a good deal of beer styles, both German and non.
    I also like their motto:
    Bier ist Vielfalt. (Beer is variety.)
    Bier ist Genuss. (Beer is enjoyment.)
    Bier ist Geschmack. (Beer is "Taste".)

    Here is there beer calender for 2013.

    I got January's beer, the Bohemian Pilsner:
    On the back of the bottle and on the above calender, they state:
    That's a lot to look forward to, eh?

    Bright golden color, almost yellow, but with a noticeable haze, which is a good sign that it wasn't filtered, with yeast sediment sitting on the bottom of my glass, I'd have to say it was filtered but not finely filtered, (bottle conditioned?) allowing a protein haze to persist. The head is quite strong, clear clean white. A typical Pils, so far, or Kellerbier.

    Not much aroma other than light type malt, but that's light. The initial taste is slightly bitter, yes, this Saaz! Not overpowering, but just enough to assert itself. Saaz is "delicate, mild, clean, somewhat floral -- a Noble hop," says BeerSmith. Wiki says, "Saaz has a very distinctive flavour. When used in beer, the resultant aroma is very mild, earthy, herbal and spicy. Despite its popularity and noble pedigree, Saaz generally has a very low Alpha Acid level and is not very effective as a bittering hop. This hop is generally used for Bohemian style lagers and Pilseners."
    So, mild and floral, no - more grassy, in the middle of the tongue, not much in the back, and peppery on the sides... in Maxbrauerei's beer.

    Often, the more I drink of a German beer, the more bitterness or some other point exerts itself by the time the end of the bottle nears, yet this is the opposite! It's milder, smother over the tongue the more I drink it, which is due to the malts reasserting themselves as the beer warms, I bet.
    The malt flavor is also mild, not overpowering, yet quite assertive, exactly in the Goldilocks zone. I'm not quite sure exactly how this compares to a Pilsner Urquell, but in my memory, this beer is a little thinner but milder than that famous beer. Over, I really like this beer. It's made with solely Bohemian ingredients, maybe, but maybe the yeast that they're using is what gives it a distinct Germanness to it.
  35. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Tony, I took note of: “I'm not quite sure exactly how this compares to a Pilsner Urquell, but in my memory, this beer is a little thinner but milder than that famous beer. Over, I really like this beer. It's made with solely Bohemian ingredients, maybe, but maybe the yeast that they're using is what gives it a distinct Germanness to it.”

    One of the distinguishing features of a Bohemian Pilsner vs. a German Pilsner (in my opinion) is the body of the beer. In my opinion a Bohemian Pilsner should have a higher final gravity. Since you are a homebrewer, below are what I think a German Pilsner should be vs. a Bohemian Pilsner:

    · German Pilsner: OG = 1.050, FG = 1.010
    · Bohemian Pilsner: OG = 1.050, FG = 1.015

    As an example I have a Bohemian Pilsner that is lagering right now (to be bottled this week) and my OG was 1.053 and the reading at transfer to the carboy for lagering was 1.020. I am hoping that this gravity will come down 2-3 points when I take a reading at bottling.

    So, the attenuation that is achieved in a given beer is based upon the fermentability of the wort and the attenuation ability of the yeast used. I wouldn’t be surprised that the brewery mashed to create a fermentable wort and used a house lager yeast strain which would result in a beer with high attenuation.

    I like the part of your description of:

    “Bright golden color, almost yellow, but with a noticeable haze, which is a good sign that it wasn't filtered, with yeast sediment sitting on the bottom of my glass, I'd have to say it was filtered but not finely filtered, (bottle conditioned?) allowing a protein haze to persist. The head is quite strong, clear clean white. A typical Pils, so far, or Kellerbier.”

    I really, really like unfiltered (or not finely filtered) beers with one of my favorites being what I call a Keller Pils (e.g., Southampton Keller Pils).

    boddhitree likes this.
  36. cu29

    cu29 Sep 26, 2005 Wisconsin

    Is this the Max Brauerei from Altenstadt Bayern?
    I was there about 2 years ago. Really small brewery. I appreciated the brewer's passion and willingness to brew non-German styles, but the results were.......how do I say.......not very good. Even his German styles were off. I'm hopeful things have improved in the two years since my visit.
    After the tour we were given a bier probe (using plastic cups). When the bierprobe ended, there was no way in h*ll I was going to buy an additional beer there......it was that disappointing.
    The beer review above gives me hope things have improved there. I may even try the beers again someday if given the chance.
    I wish them well.
    Ps- I think they were going to be at that Munich beer festival that is coming up (or already took place?).
  37. TreinJan

    TreinJan Apr 13, 2006 Netherlands

    Braukunst Live is next weekend
  38. boddhitree

    boddhitree Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    I'll be there Saturday all day.
  39. boddhitree

    boddhitree Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Yeah, it's in Altenstadt near the Austrian border. Never been there, but
    Maxbrauerei is new, only a few years old. There website states they started in 2010, and enlarged in 2012. Only this year have they gone whole hog on the monthly beer thing. I think a new brewery might have needed a year to shake out the kinks of the brewery. Also, it seems they finally struck on a good business idea to focus on quality beer with (for Germany) unique flavors. I'm especially interested to try the Hazelnut Porter and the Kastanien (Chestnut) Ale.

    Only thing I don't like is their labels are dreadfully dull.
  40. cu29

    cu29 Sep 26, 2005 Wisconsin

    Yep, that's the one.....

    I checked the bier line-up for the Braukunst Live event, and Max Brauerei has 4 beers on offer. I've had 2 of the 4 (IPA and Bock). Please give those two a taste and tell me what you think. If you say they are good, then I will assume that the brewery has much improved from when I visited on March 31, 2011. I await your review!
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