Beat still at RR

The bottom line is that everyone wants the beer they have to be worth more in trades than the beer others have. People will go out of their way to shit on the value of other beers in order to pump up what they have. We see it every single day, and it isn't going to change any time soon.

In my opinion, if someone trades something crazy for a release and it sets the asking price higher... too bad. Just be patient since in most cases the asking price will come back down. If the value stays high and you don't have the weight to get it... too bad.

 

I did Even read the KBS thread. I Even talked to some folks that went, face to face. I personally think Founder's did a fine job with the KBS release. Those who really have differing opinions were at different parts of the line for the release. They, again, are trying to please as many folks as possible, but some folks just can't be pleased. That is not their fault.

 

Yes, and it is only beer.

 

No, and that's not what either of us said at all. And yes, I read the entirety of the KBS thread, and I was there. Neither of us said that the Founders way was better, just different.

 

I find these types of threads entertaining anyway. Especially when I am at my night job.

 

Do you have any idea how many people got to buy KBS that aren't near the brewery?

 

Umm, okay. Let's go through this. I said that the fact that this release was universally lauded by those involved "is a testament to the inanity of the Founders/GI model".

Possumguy then says that assumes that they all want the same outcome. To which I reply that it only assumes that they don't want people to pissed off at them. So then you say that you never said they wanted that, just that they do it differently? So, how have you addressed anything I've said AT ALL? I say that those releases are a failure because they generate tons of ill-will (and this point is completely inarguable, if you read the KBS thread). That is my entire point. If you're going to argue against me you need to say why generating tons of ill-will is acceptable (or desirable). Saying "it's just different" isn't addressing anything because I already know it's different. I'm saying it's worse. If you disagree with me then you're saying it's not, and I'd like to know why.

Do you have any idea how many people didn't get to buy KBS that are near the brewery? Why is one superior to the other?

 

This equation doesn't work out, please see the explanations laid out above.

"Possumguy" .....so should I refer to you as "Zebra fleshlight guy?"

 

Words in my mouth much? Where did I say one was superior to the other? You're the one who said that one was inane, instead of realizing that each type of release has its plusses and minuses. How many people didn't get to buy KBS at the release? How many people could've bought Beatification had it been released for distribution? Can't please everyone all the time.

 

And I would say that the ill-will is generated on the consumption side - not the production side. The consumer needs to wear some responsibility here. And there are many other variables in this equation that don't get considered here. These variables affect each beer distribution/consumption model differently, thus, affecting the "happiness" of the customers. To say that it is simply Founders model that is at fault disregards the many thousands of varied expectations that seek out their product as well as demographic and geographic factors. This is obviously a simplification of a complex system for the sake of an internet discussion.

And I do like the way that RR handled this release, for the record.

 

My god, when I'm saying "I think this model is worse" and you reply to me saying something defending the model I think it's pretty fair to assume that you're defending the model. I also didn't put words in your mouth, you directly said that distributing KBS lets more people get that, so I asked you why it's better for more people to get it in distribution that closer to home.

I'm saying that the number doesn't really matter, it's how people feel about how it went. Have you heard anyone who bought Beat complain about how it was handled? Why is it so controversial to say that a release that generates significant amounts of ill will is a terrible model of release?

What equation? I have no idea what you're talking about.

How on earth do you see a fleshlight there? That's a pretty interesting insight to your psyche, jeez.

 

Yeah, you win the internet today.

 

My impression is that you are vastly overrating the amount of "ill will" generated by the KBS release. Yes, at the time, people were pissed that their allotments got cut in half, or that they got shut out because a crazy number of people showed up. However, those same people got over it. People realized there was still plenty of beer to go around, and they moved on. I highly doubt it will have a lasting effect on Founders' sales.

I also don't understand why you need us to agree with you so badly.

 

The Founders model was worse at the brewery. People traveled and went home unhappy.
The Founders model was better in distribution. People far away from the brewery got to buy it.

You act like everything is so black and white. There's shades of gray, man.

 

Oh I doubt that it will really affect them, but I think the fact that they announced like 3 days later that they're doing it differently shows that they recognize it was a clusterfuck. I think that means it was a bad way to do it.

I don't. I just like to argue about stupid things with strangers on the internet.

Not really. I think that the way they do releases is worse. I think if you can't sate demand in a market you shouldn't distribute to it, and that they do it wrong. That's not really black and white, something can be worse while not being THE WORST EVER. I think shooting beer out of a cannon into the sun would probably be the worst.

Anyway I don't really think that it makes much of a difference where people are who buy beer, however you do it the number who get it will end up being somewhat similar, the only question is how much hassle it is to get. I think the best release will minimize that hassle, and it's transparently obvious that the diaspora method the Founders and GI use does not do that.

 

Founders and Goose apparently do. And if, as you admit, it doesn't really effect their sales, why not try and expand their distribution as much as possible? Contrary to what many people on this site would like to think, breweries like Founders and Goose Island (and even Russian River, to some extent) aren't succeeding because of their special releases, but rather because of their everyday products. Obviously breweries like Founders, Goose, and Firestone Walker believe that if they can spread their special releases as far as possible, it gains them more notoriety for their every day products to sell in new markets. I would imagine they're not having a hard time fulfilling the demand for Dirty Bastard in Michigan, so why not try and see if it can sell out in Arizona or New Mexico? Again, it's just a different way of running their business. While they obviously don't want negative publicity, running the perfect release party is not their top priority.

tl;dr

Agree to disagree on what is the "best" way to release a limited-run beer.

 

I don't actually think Firestone spreads it thin, at least around me it's pretty trivial to get a case of Abacus or Parabola if you want it.

Regardless, sending your standards to far-flung markets is all well and good, since the brewery can make a shitton of them. I just think it's silly to send your special releases to the same markets. Like, Minnesota got two cases of Bramble, why even bother? CBS was the same story, why even distribute it to a state if you're going to have stores getting half a case? It seems like it just creates a headache for the brewery, for the distributor, for the retailer, and for the customer. If you're going to do that at least be like 50-50 and price according to the demand.

But yeah, it looks like we basically agree to disagree.

 

Definitely agree here.

 

In SoCal it can be harder to find. You could find it, but it sells quickly (24hrs) and it is relatively difficult to get close to a case. I think it is getting better, and I am not sure if it is FW that is not saturating it's local market or the distributor (which is known as a bad one)

 

Well, before Levitation gets here, where IS Firestone's home market? Paso Robles isn't really in classical SoCal, which is more LA/SD (in my mind). It looks like it's about halfway between San Jose and LA, so for all I know they might think the Bay Area is their home market. Or their distributor sucks, who knows?