Beer Laws In MN

Casanovas in WI seems to be doing fine. Where is your example of a state where small beer stores have all been run out of business?

Do one or two shut down? Sure. If they can't change, they will disappear. It's called creative destruction. You can't make everyone a winner. But I see many states with similar law changes that have been doing just fine. I just enjoyed some fine MI beer tonight that I bought in bottles in a store from a brew pub.

 

But so what? Some small retailers would suffer, but others would prosper. We might start seeing places like South Bay Drugs (San Diego) and Coffee Grounds (Eau Claire). Both are small retailers that aren't just straight up liquor stores and sell a nice selection and do quite well for themselves.

 

As a consumer, I think Minnesota needs to allow:

• Beer sales on Sunday
• Beer sales in grocery stores
• Growler sales in liquor stores and bars
• Brewpub brands for sale in liquor stores
• Off sale purchases at breweries

MANY other states (that aren't the South or Utah) allow this. Why shouldn't we? Why should we keep outdated laws on the books to benefit certain businesses that are detrimental to the consumer? Does anyone have a solid argument against any of these?

 

Did you even bother to read the rest of this thread? Oh, never mind.

I haven't seen anyone arguing against growler sales, brewpubs being allowed to sell in stores, or off-sale purchases at breweries. You know why? No? Let me give you a hint: because it benefits everyone. Consumer, brewery, brewpubs. All win. That's not the case for your first two "points".

You can go ahead & argue for the Wal-Marting of America; we're going to have to agree to disagree on that point.

 

I can't speak to other states, but I can tell you that the density of liquor stores is a lot lower in places where the law are more liberal. I have, however, had the opportunity to examine a lot of balance sheets of small liquor stores, & I can tell you definitively that if they lose a bunch of sales of the "top 20 SKUs", a lot of these places are going to be struggling very quickly.

One or two shut down? There are 61 liquor licenses in St. Paul alone. Let's take just this one city as an example. Conservatively, if they allow another 15 liquor licenses to various places (I'd wager it'd be more), that's taking the sales from existing stores & cutting them by 20%. How many small business do you know that could thrive by taking a quick 20% hit over the course of a year or two? It would be very tough on a lot of them, not just a couple.

Respectfully, I don't think we're going to change one another's minds. Changing the rules in the middle of the game seems beyond the pale to me & would result in a serious shakeout of independent liquor stores in Minnesota. You may disagree about that, too, but after seeing the numbers, I consider it beyond dispute.

 

Colorado added Sunday sales in 2008 and saw a 6% increase in tax revenue collected, which would mean an over all increase in sales and not 6 days worth of sales spread out over 7 days.

 

You're being awfully condescending, bud, and you're twisting my words. Yes I read the thread, and I get the points that you and others have made against Sunday sales and sale in non-liquor stores, but I don't think they are valid.

I'm not advocating for the "Wal-Marting of America" (whatever that means). As a consumer, I want to have the most choices open to me with the most convenience and at the lowest prices. I can't get everything I want, but I would like to be able to buy craft beer at retailers other than designated liquor stores and on Sundays if I need to. Lots of other states allow this. Some small liquor retailers would be affected, but other small retailers would benefit, like convenience/corner stores, delis, small grocers, and gas stations. Like I said before, when I travel to other states that allow beer sales in other retail venues, non-liquor stores will often have a great selection, like the aforementioned South Bay Drugs in San Diego and Coffee Grounds in Eau Claire. I used to visit a friend in Missoula, Montana, and the best beer store in town was a deli/grocery/convenience store. A family run, small business with great folks who love craft beer. I would love to have that here in MN.

 

Right. There are going to be people who will buy on Sundays who wouldn't have made the purchase if the store were closed. Take for instance a beer fan who wants a sixer for a football game or a barbeque, or a wine drinker who wants to grab a quick bottle for a Sunday dinner or picnic. Sure, they could have stocked up ahead of time, but if they forgot, they either wouldn't make the purchase at all or they would drive to Wisconsin if they lived close enough. Not everyone carries loads of alcohol in their homes.

 

Yes, I agree, you & I were both certainly both being condescending.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. Hopefully I'll run into you at a bar, release, or tasting at some point in the future & we can continue this in loud voices over a pint of good beer.

 

I hate to beat the issue any further, and you and I for sure disagree as far as grocery sales go. You say that the other potential law changes benefit everyone, but couldn't off-sale brewery purchases hurt the small stores as well? And I would argue that Sunday sales hurt some small stores as well.

 

http://www.roadtripsforbeer.com/2011/10/provo-utah-expands-sunday-beer-sales/

.....and PROVO UTAH of all places beats Minnesota to the punch. Beer in grocery and convenience stores, PLUS Sunday sales.

 

Correct. Over night the Sunday liquor store sales will destroy the small family run liquor stores. IMO, there are more important stuff BA people need to get behind.

 

The main arguments I got out of it was:

1.) increased costs to stay open an extra day
2.) The increase in revenue would not be great enough to cover the additional cost. Basically they would be spreading 6 days of sales over 7 day plus a little.

I'd be interested to see the sales number of Wisconsin border liquor stores on Sundays. Divide that between all the MN liquor stores that are "losing out" by not selling on Sunday and I think we would find that it is a fairly miniscule number per store.

Lets say that revenue lost to WI is $10,000,000/ year. And there are 350 MN liquor stores "missing out" by not selling on Sundays. That comes down to about $28,500/year for each of those stores.$2,380/month or only about $595 per sunday that they would be open. Take out your cost of goods sold, payroll etc and there isnt much left.

I realize these numbers are completely random, but it shows how a seemingly large sum makes very little difference per store.

 

Instead of guessing let's go out and find actual data. Colorado added Sunday sales in 2008 and saw a 6% increase in tax revenue collected, which would mean an over all increase in sales and not 6 days worth of sales spread out over 7 days.

 

Colorado saw an initial increase, but from what I understand it leveled off over time to around where it was previously. Also, a 6% increase in sales is not good business when you add 1/7 in operating costs.

 

Let's think about this. Ex: With the current set-up of 6 days worth of buying power factoring into a 7 day week equalling a mythical 100%... If a 7th day of buying power is added (representing an increase of 16.6666%), will the spectrum of drinkers in Minnesota increase their consumption of alcohol (across the board) by 16.6666%?

If the answer is yes - then the addition of a 7th day of sales opportunity would be successful and work because the factored "cost of doing business" will be off-set by resulting sales/revenue stream. If not, the companies will need to either accept/accumulate the loss or increase pricing models to address the losses. I believe the latter will occur because businesses in general are designed to make money - not break even or operate at a loss. The following quote from the Wikipedia article titled "Zero-Sum-Gain" validates this point: "any commercial exchange is a non-zero-sum activity, because each party must consider the goods it is receiving as being at least fractionally more valuable than the goods it is delivering. Economic exchanges must benefit both parties enough above the zero-sum such that each party can overcome its transaction costs."

The cautionary statements against Sunday sales and addition of Big-Box/Grocery sales are legitimate. Changing the factors of a well-established program that is in the midst of an economic and popularity boom would only act to unbalance the conditions that are promoting the growth. We all know how challenging things have become within the industry regarding the nature of availability of certain products as the pace of production is being outmatched by demand. Now, we must consider the further dillution by the possibility of increasing additional outlets (which will compete with each other for your dollars) and the almost guaranteed probability of increased costs of doing business (for the purveyors of these products) and you can quickly see a disaster unfold right before your eyes. Is this really what we want?

I can honestly say that I won't increase my drinking by 16%. I don't believe you will either.

 

Since I don't own a store I am not in a position to say how much difference it would make, but I highly doubt they shut off their coolers and I would guess that they pay a monthly rent. So, those costs wouldn't be extra. It may not make a difference, but I don't think it's entirely fair to say that costs would increase by 1/7 (14%) or the 16% stated by Beerking. I understand the resistance to sales in grocery and convenience stores, but I still don't understand the resistance to the Sunday law. Then again I'm a transplant from a state where there's Sunday sales and sales in evil grocery stores.

 

Sunday sales is a huge impediment to grocery sales. Do the one, expect the other.

 

One thing to note would be the effect of a general price increase. Normally, beer sees an approximately 3% (industry-average) price increase which would obviously result in increased sales tax revenue. So the net increase in retail sales would be less than 6%.
I'm not taking a position either way...just pointing out additional factors.

 

I don't own a liquor store either, but I think there would be more expenses than just running the cooler. Here's a few things I can think of:

1. Hourly wages that include tax and insurance costs - probably the biggest cost?
2. Energy expenditures to include heating/cooling/full electrical
3. Maintenence and wear and tear on all infrastructure from lights to carpet to cleaning

I'm sure there are other costs that only a business owner could attest to. For what it's worth, I would rather see things stay as is. We have a great range of selection across the board. I'd hate to see this compromised.