Beer Recipe Kits Costs

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by KingforaDay, Nov 19, 2012.

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  1. KingforaDay

    KingforaDay Pooh-Bah (2,421) Aug 5, 2010 New Jersey
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    Finally took the plunge and bought a basic Homebrew starter kit. First beer up will be an Imperial IPA for which i bought all inclusive recipe kit (although I amped up the hops and added an additional 5 oz to the basic package). The recipe cost about $80 for what will amount to a 5 gallon batch and with bottles and other misc. costs, i am looking at around $100 for a couple of cases. I am not getting into home brewing to save money but have always been told you can make beer for a fraction of the cost of buying it. Are the kits more expensive than buying ingredients separately? I realize buying in bulk will save money, but the costs surprised me a bit. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. robconoclast

    robconoclast Initiate (0) Jun 22, 2012 Ohio

    What is the brand of the kit ?
     
  3. WeaponTheyFear

    WeaponTheyFear Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2008 Connecticut

    Depending on where you buy from recipe kits can be very expensive. My local homebrew shop has written 3 books on clone beers and while most of the clones are pretty damn expensive (ranging from $38- $120) they are still usually cheaper than their commercial counterparts when only factoring in ingredients.
     
  4. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,331) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland
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    Homebrewing is cheaper if you sink the cost of equipment and add value to the whole "it's my beer that I made" thing. It only gets noticiably cheaper once you move to all-grain, and buy your base malts and hops in quantity. It's best not to estimate how much you would make at work for the time that you spend homebrewing. I've estimated that for every batch of homebrew that goes from recipe planning, to sourcing ingredients, to brew day, fermentation maintenance, bottling, and cleaning, upkeep, etc. that each 5gal batch costs me around a day's labor at my current wage. (That's after I've sunk equipment and utilities). I do all-grain batches, buy sacks of my preferred base malt, and buy hops in bulk. And I don't work particularly cheap for my industry (most people on this forum probably make way more than I do, though.)
     
  5. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,176) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
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    You probably bought about the most expensive beer ingredient kit I ever heard of. For starters, it's an Imperial IPA which means you got a lot of extract and a lot of hops. Even then, $100 sounds steep to me, but I am not a huge Imperial IPA fan and I may be out of touch. If you fall in love with homebrewing, you will want to consider switching to all-grain beers. Grains are cheaper than extract; just compare all-grain kit prices to extract kit prices, and figure that on top of that, you may be able to save by purchasing ingredients separately, especially if you buy in bulk. However, for me, the biggest value of all-grain brewing is owning the process and having greater creative control on the beer.

    Aside: For a first homebrew, I would have recommended a different style. High gravity fermentations can be tricky. I would not be a happy camper if my first brew turned out to suck and I paid $100 for the ingredients. That said, lots of people around here go for the gusto on their first brews. At least you are not asking us when to add the peanut butter, chocolate syrup, and bananas. Welcome to the hobby, and don't listen to me. I'm just a little play-it-safe pantywaist.
     
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  6. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,611) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
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    Buy hops by the pound and grain by the sack.

    A DIPA has higher gravity, which means more extract, and a DIPA means hops hops and hops. Those are not cheap to brew at home vs other styles. Your kit price does look high when compared to online shops.
     
  7. KingforaDay

    KingforaDay Pooh-Bah (2,421) Aug 5, 2010 New Jersey
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    Its the Imperial IPA kit from Keystone Brewing in PA. The kit itself was $69 but with the amped up additional hops ($10)and what I figure bottle costs will be, it will probably be $100 batch before i am done. Being a total newbie with zero homebrewing knowledge at all, I needed a kit with hand holding instructions throughout. Brewed it yesterday and it was very easy but I guess only time will tell whether the finished product is drinkable.
     
  8. KingforaDay

    KingforaDay Pooh-Bah (2,421) Aug 5, 2010 New Jersey
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    Great advice I know which everyone told me beforehand also. i just figured I'd rather hit a double with a style I love than a home run with a style i am just ok with. Of course i am a Mets fan so I probably should not be using baseball related references when it comes to the serious matter of homebrewing:slight_smile:.
     
  9. ipas-for-life

    ipas-for-life Initiate (0) Feb 28, 2012 Virginia

    If you are extract brewing it seems to me that the majority of kits are cheaper than buying each individual ingrediant. The only way I have found to get it down in price is to buy your extract 50lbs at a time.
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Firstly, I think it is a great idea to utilize your Local Homebrew Shop (LHBS) of Keystone Homebrewing for making your first batch. In addition to buying equipment and ingredients from them they also provide the service of answering (in person or the phone) any questions you might have. Keystone is my LHBS but unfortunately I do not make it there as often as I would normally since it is not very local to me. Keystone carries quality stuff and their staff is very nice and knowledgeable.

    For future batches you could purchase kits (or ingredients) from online stores. Below is a kit for an Imperial IPA which might be similar to the one you purchased. The cost of the kit is $55.45 plus shipping ($7.99?) and a few more dollars for yeast ($3.29 or $6.25). So, a worst case cost of $69.69.

    http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/115th-dream-hopbursted-ipa-extract-kit.html

    As others have mentioned, brewing an Imperial IPA is not a cheap style to make.

    Cheers!

    P.S. I have never bought empty bottles. I have always used commercial brewery bottles where I remove the labels. It would be helfpful to you to ask friends and familes to save their commercial beer bottles; just make sure they are pry off bottles (not twist off bottles).
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,043) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
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    Just came in to say that Keystone Homebrew Supply is a very good LHBS. The Montgomeryville store is halfway across the state for me, but I do get there a couple times a year. I haven't really asked the guys there for any advice, but from chatting with them and hearing what they say to other customers, I can say that they are far more knowledgable than the employees at most LHBSs. You are lucky.

    Also, if cost per batch is important (and scary) to you, I'd recommend you don't count bottles in the price of your batches. Even if you have to buy them, they are reusable, so consider them the way you would other brewing equipment.
     
  12. Mitchster

    Mitchster Pooh-Bah (2,332) Dec 25, 2002 Michigan
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    For a beer like an IMP IPA, you're going to want to use either 2 packs of rehydrated Safale US05 or a smack pack with at least a 1L stir plate starter.
     
  13. Spaceloaf

    Spaceloaf Initiate (0) Nov 27, 2008 Oregon

    As others have mentioned, going all grain is the biggest thing you can do to cut down the cost.

    Also, to save money you should google Brew in a Bag (BIAB) if you don't know what that is. It's one of the cheapest ways to go all grain because you can pretty much do it without needing to buy additional equipment (other than a bag of course).

    But quality hops are going to be cost money either way. If you're planning on making a lot of IPA's, you're probably not going to be saving much on cost whether you use a kit or not.

    What you will get is super fresh beer where the hops are at their maximum.
     
  14. KingforaDay

    KingforaDay Pooh-Bah (2,421) Aug 5, 2010 New Jersey
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    The smack pack came with the kit, hopefully it was at least 1L as you mention. Air lock has been bubbling nicely the last few days so I assume so far so good. I am sure I'll screw up the dry hop and/or the bottling though so stay tuned!!!!
     
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,043) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
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    When he said '1L' he was referring to the size starter (one liter) you would make, on a stirplate, with your smack pack providing the yeast to be propagated in the 1L starter. The smack pack itself is not a starter, and pitching only the cells from the smack pack into a wort with the gravity of a DIPA is really underpitching.

    Edit: you can make a starter without a stirplate. But if you do, the size would need to be bigger than it would with a stirplate. www.mrmalty.com has a good starter calculator.
     
  16. KingforaDay

    KingforaDay Pooh-Bah (2,421) Aug 5, 2010 New Jersey
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    Interesting. I am wondering why would this not come in a starter kit for an Imperial IPA or at least be reccommended as an addition? Now I am worried. What can I expect from the finished product for not having used this?
     
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,043) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
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    Starters are something you make, not buy as a kit. No ingredient kit that I know of comes with anything for making a starter. Equipment for making a starter is sometimes sold as a separate kit, but there's really no specialized equipment needed. Did the recipe instructions have anything to say about it? If not, it's a bad instruction sheet for a beer of such high gravity.

    Chances are your beer will be quite drinkable, but here are some things that can happen when underpitching...

    - high esters
    - high fusel alcohols
    - under-attenuation
    - high diacetyl
    - high sulfur compounds (particularly in lagers, not so much an issue for your IPA)
    - high acetaldehyde

    Note I said 'can' and not 'will.' Regardless, you'll still make beer.

    Edit: I recommend you read this online book...
    www.howtobrew.com
    It will demystify a lot of the basics.
     
  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    It is unfortunate that the Keystone guys didn’t educate you that you needed a lot of pitched yeast when homebrewing a DIPA.

    There was (is) several ways to achieve pitching a lot of yeast:

    · Pitch multiple liquid yeast pack (needless to say but more expensive)
    · Pitch a yeast starter
    · Pitch dry yeast like US-05; I would think two packets would be sufficient for a DIPA. Dry yeast is cheaper (Northern Brewer charges $3.29 for one packet). It is recommended to re-hydrate dry yeast before pitching.

    It is best to not assume that bad things will necessarily result from just pitching one Activator Pack into your DIPA.

    I would highly recommend that you have a discussion with the Keystone guys on this topic. You will learn from them and they will learn from you (i.e., to educate new brewers that a lot of yeast is needed for high gravity kits).

    You should also read this thread: http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/yeast-starter-needed.50712/

    Cheerss!
     
  19. KingforaDay

    KingforaDay Pooh-Bah (2,421) Aug 5, 2010 New Jersey
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    I appreciate the advice. Spoke to Keystone and they said i could have gone with a 2nd bag of the yeast pack or pitched a starter but it should be ok and may just take a little longer to ferment with just the 1 pack. Not sure if that is true but I know bottom line is I have to educate myself a lot more on this and everything else. Might have been a little too ambitious going with a DIPA 1st time out. I'll learn from my mistakes like everyone else has I guess. But thanks to everyone for their advice and help.
     
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    “ …may just take a little longer to ferment with just the 1 pack.” That is entirely possible. By pitching just one liquid pack in a high gravity beer it is reasonable to expect a longer lag time (the initial timeframe where the yeast cells are budding (growing) to get their cell count up). It is also reasonable to expect that this beer will take a bit more time to ‘mature’ within the fermenter.

    When I make higher gravity beers (Original Gravity > 1.060) I make it a practice to permit the beer to stay within the fermenter for at least two weeks. I make IPAs where I dry hop them for a two week timeframe after fermentation is complete. I am assuming that your DIPA will be dry hopped. Permit me to make some suggestions for your beer (and they are just suggestions):

    · Let you primary fermentation go for at least 10 days (and maybe even 14 days)
    · Add you dry hops to the primary fermenter after the above time frame and let them have a contact time of 7-14 days (my personal preference it 14 days)
    · I am assuming that you are bottling your beers. While the beers will be carbonated in two weeks I highly recommend that you give the beers additional conditioning time in the bottle before drinking.

    I fully recognize that the above requires a lot of patience (particularly since this is your first batch) but I believe the patience will reward you with a tasty beer.

    Read this thread: http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/i-really-want-to-taste-my-beer.50837/

    As a new brewer you will learn lots of interesting things!

    Remember to take full advantage of the staff at Keystone. They are truly nice fellows and very knowledgeable.

    Vikeman would advise you to read this book (this is good advice): http://www.howtobrew.com/

    Continue to read the BA homebrewing forum and post questions as they occur to you.

    I have a feeling that your DIPA will turn out just fine (given the proper time).

    Cheers!
     
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