Beer Style Perception vs. Brewery Designation

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by jrc1093, Apr 29, 2019.

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  1. jrc1093

    jrc1093 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,466) Mar 18, 2018 Connecticut
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    *Obligatory apologies if this topic's been addressed in other forums already*

    The more I've gotten into beer, the more encounters I've had with breweries seemingly mis-categorizing the styles of some of their beers.

    The thought struck first with the increasing prevalence of 'pastry/dessert' stouts (most of which at least still resemble stouts in some way), and remains relevant as the number of flavorings continue to rise. An example that comes to mind is The Veil's 'Never' series, which includes beers stylistically labeled goses (by both the brewer and on this site), but are so heavily fruited even the brewer admits they've started to essentially escape a traditional style category.

    I suppose what I'm ultimately asking, BAs, is what other beers have you encountered that you've felt are mis-categorized by either the brewer, this site, or by the average beer drinker? And additionally, how do you reconcile this type of discrepancy when rating?

    Hopefully wasn't too long-winded. Cheers!
     
  2. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    Kölsch might be the single most mislabeled style in all of beer. Beyond the naming convention (legit attempts should be "Kölsch style ale" outside of Köln), most aren't even trying to be accurate. Yet they still throw that name around for no reason. It's just a fancy name for a blonde ale or a cooler sounding base for a fruit beer of some sort.
     
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  3. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Kölsch? Distant second (or third... or ...) to "IPA".

    (Also, German protectionism doesn't have anything to do with beer style per se.)
     
  4. jrc1093

    jrc1093 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,466) Mar 18, 2018 Connecticut
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Reminds me of Hudson Valley's "sour IPAs", which more resemble lightly-hopped, heavily-flavored kettle sours than any type of IPA. Personally, I've found them delicious and zany, but I have a seriously hard time seeing them as IPAs.
     
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  5. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Calling the murky, turbid, juice-looking beers currently popular IPAs has to be the most egregious example of mis-naming out there.
     
  6. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    Calling something a NEIPA because its hazy. I have seen loads of beers out that call themselves NEIPA and are not even close, more like a hazed up traditional IPA.
     
  7. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Categorizing beer by individual beer style perception is a dangerous trap. Regularly people talk on this site about individual difference is perception, e.g. "Everybody has their own unique palate. Everybody's tastes are different. Etc., Etc." If you think the style categorization system is confusing or messed up now, image what it would be like if it based only on what people's tastes are.
     
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  8. jrc1093

    jrc1093 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,466) Mar 18, 2018 Connecticut
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    I wholeheartedly agree, and would never even want to see what happens were we to head down that path. I suppose my questions were really aimed at examples people found extreme enough to challenge their palates/perception of what defines a style, especially considering some style guidelines are constantly being tested.
     
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  9. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes. Relatedly, styles also change with time. Greene King IPA has been brewed for over 100 years. It's 3.6% ABV would exclude it from current IPA standards, but that does not mean it's not an IPA. You can't go back in time and argue with a brewer; the beer is and always will be what they say it is.
     
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  10. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,285) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If a good 5k runner entered the 100m dash as a competitor, s/he would be scored in the 100m. No one would expect differently.

    I rate to the designation of the brewer.

    Style labeling is a must for brewers. It gives the consumer a quick description of what they are buying.
     
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  11. jrc1093

    jrc1093 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,466) Mar 18, 2018 Connecticut
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    And I think that's practically indisputable; things are always shifting, beer included.

    With regard to your last statement, as long as there are styles, there are going to be guidelines. What you said is true, a brewer can call a beer whatever they want; if it doesn't reflect its supposed style, though, perception will change regardless, until the style label is potentially moot.
     
  12. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I've never thought of Alaskan Amber as an Alt but, calling it Amber probably sells it better than if they called it Alaskan Alt.
     
  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Probably the most classic 'error' on a brewer's classification of a certain beer's style would be Zombie Dust. The hops are so flavorful in that beer that most drinkers would call it an IPA. But not Three Floyds. To them, it's a Pale Ale, probably based upon the abv of the beer being lower than what is generally defined as an IPA's alcohol level.
     
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  14. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    It is not generally realised that IPAs were normally the weakest Pale Ales in a brewery lineup. When the World Wars led to shortages and general reduction in strength IPAs became similar in strength to Greene King's.
    With regard to Kolsch, I do feel that the originators requests regarding its nature should be respected, it costs nothing. They were trying to preserve the product. And it is that rare beast, an Obergarige Lagerbier or top fermented lager. Unfortunately years of beer writers who have simply regurgitated other writers material have convinced Joe Public that all lagers are bottom fermented. But Lagerbier is simply that which has been stored in cool conditions. Lager means to store.
     
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  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Lager beers are indeed fermented by bottom fermentation yeast.

    Below is from the book The Practical Brewer: Manual to the Brewing Industry, 1946:

    "305. What is Lager Beer

    The resulting brew, or wort, is fermented by yeast of the bottom fermentation type..."

    Cheers!
     
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  16. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    You will find such statements all over the place but as I say, beer literature is rarely based on thorough research. Just reiteration of existing material.
     
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  17. tolar111

    tolar111 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,094) Aug 17, 2008 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    You make a convincing argument. What literature are you referencing to make your point?
     
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  18. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Do you have any examples of top fermented Lagers?
     
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  19. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Except when the ale brewery was in the United States, when the brewer's IPA was typically their highest ABV ale, sometimes second to their Stock Ale. The ales of lower alcoholic content, like Cream/Sparkling/Brilliant ales, were uusally around or slightly above the typical strength of US lager beers.
    Before Prohibition and after Repeal, US brewing authorities, Robert Wahl, Ph. D and Dr. Leo Wallerstein both objected to proposed US Federal Regulations that defined lager beer as being only bottom fermented. See Top and bottom fermenting yeast - which also quotes other US brewers agreeing with the rules and disagreeing with the then increasing use of lager yeast at warm fermentation temperatures to brew so-called "bastard ales".

    After Repeal in the US most US ales were "stored" for a similar length of time as the brewer's lager beers.
     
    #19 jesskidden, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  20. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    If by your question you mean other top-fermented beers that are lagered? Altbier.
     
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