Beers Best Enjoyed at the Source

But, some bands benefit from the structure of the studio, and some struggle against it. Live music isn't better when the bass player is going through a divorce, the guitarist is drunk onstage, and the singer is strung out drug du jour.

Some bands just groove and flow live, and come across stiff recorded. No one size fits all, but I can list plenty of artists whose records I've loved that sucked live (hello Eddie Money!).

 

I agree, bell's are best enjoyed live!

 

Sure, but let’s talk about music more broadly than just “bands,” by which I assume you are talking primarily about rock bands. What about the sound of a string quartet or a symphony orchestra? A live jazz ensemble? Acoustic guitar? Bagpipes? Kettle drums? Sitar?

Also, by stepping into the studio is your bass player magically no longer going through a divorce? Does your guitar player no longer have a drinking problem? Is your lead singer no longer strung out? These are issues with the musicians themselves more than the mode through which they are delivering their music.

Again, see my original statement: I said “all else being equal.” I’m talking about the quality of the sound of the music itself, the dynamic range of live music vs. recorded. I think some folks are just deliberately trying not to understand the main point I’ve been trying to make and the analogy I’ve been trying to draw.

EDIT: Let me put it another way: Would you rather listen to an old scratchy recording of Robert Johnson, or would you rather have him sitting in your living room playing live?

 

You didn't like my Fuller's ESB at the brewery? Cask conditioned.

With a Stilton & chutney sandwich on fresh brown bread -- sublime.

 

My first thought would be any IPA which at a brewery. Back to the comments about the experience being tied to the beer, I did the backpack through Europe thing in 1986 after college. We went to several breweries in Munich (Augustine, Lowenbrau, etc.). OMG. Similarly, we had a lot of cask ales at pubs in London. Both of those experiences got me started on craft beer,

More recently, I would say Guinness at a pub in Dublin about five years ago. Drinking outside on a nice evening talking with locals and travelers about life. I refuse to drink a Guinness again outside of Dublin. The beer just won't be the same taste.

Most recently, it would be the slow poured pilsner at Bierstadt in Denver. I am so glad my son lives in Denver!

 

They are brewing small batches of beer there, but stated during planning Guinness would be imported. I took it to mean it would still be available on draft/draught.

The music and ambiance was Night at the Roxbury around 8 PM. Not sure if it’s more chill in the daytime. I’ll call a few months from now to see if Guinness is still from a can or bottle, will visit and report back in Great Lakes folder if proper draught / nitro service is available.

 

There's some variability, of course. Ironically, Smuttynose had the most state of the art and brand new Krones filling line. It'd be about 8 years old now. Allagash had good equipment, some age on it, but very well maintained - that makes a huge difference. Barreled Souls - no clue as I've not visited the brewery which only opens to mere mortals for special events the taproom can't host.

A few of the fillers I have seen installed are maybe a tad questionable in terms of design. I think you know my opinion on the mobile outfits ( if you forgot, i dont think much of them). I think just as much as what the equipment is, it's how it is operated, maintained, and cleaned. Obviously if the filler can't do low TPO to begin with, you are already at a deficit and should have done some more homework. I've talked to quite a few canning system manufacturers looking for equipment for my pilot plant and the ones that "get it" always talk low TPO with proper operation and maintenance (in my case, that isn't so important, but it tells me something about the builder and commitment to quality). I'm looking at similar capacity to a small brewery, and there are tons of suppliers out there, so I'm not looking at Krones or anybody else on that kind of scale.

What I'm learning in my own search is that the price for good equipment, while still substantial, isn't what it once was for the smaller systems as it seems theres quite a bit if competition. It takes some homework, but I'd say most places using a mobile outfit or some cobbled together kit could put that money into owning a canning line probably in pretty short order. Dont take that as disparaging - I've certainly wasted time and money being "creative" trying to get bubbly fruit juice into cans. Bottling probably not so many options and probably not as affordable, but I'm certainly finding plenty of affordable, well-designed small scale canning equipment out there.

Nobody has brought up pasteurization either - that could have an impact, especially if packaging practices are poor.

 

The flaws can be cleaned up on a recording, they can't be hidden live. And yes, my work brings me in contact with many different styles of music (for examples, tomorrow I get to see this twice:



and Sunday this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS9dscuKsGA ) , but my personal preferences lean to Blues/Rock/Americana/Country.. The flaws are often the fun part of live music But, when performers have poor mastery of their instrument, I'd rather listen to a recording.

 

Forgot about the 1 video rule: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS9dscuKsGA

 

Here's my work schedule for this month: https://mountbakertheatre.com/Onlin...ticle_id=372177D6-C9F6-41AF-AA08-7292DA251FDF

The only show I'm not working, Reverend Peyton, is a show I bought tickets to. The orchestra was last weekend, and the first weekend of November. I'm usually there for the rehearsals as well.I get quite a variety of content inputted into my system. and I stand by my position that some acts are better live, and some better recorded.

 

Do you happen to know about the difference in quality (e.g., TPO levels) in packaging lines that are 5+ years old vs. those available today? Can an 'old' packaging line be retrofitted to produce low TPO values?

Cheers!

P.S. Yes, I do indeed recall your thoughts about mobile canning systems and I happen to agree with you. I would think it could be quite challenging to calibrate a mobile canning system after transport.

 

But the Replacements…..always better at the source. For better or worse.

Enjoy

 

That I don't know. I would expect with the larger systems (Krones, etc), TPO control would have always been good. But with the smaller, custom systems I don't know, but I probably have some old specs stashed. If I find anything, I will PM you. For my products it isn't of concern, but I think the spec would be on any quotes I collected.

Yeah - mobile is not an ideal option in my book. Main problem we had on a couple of tests was the filler failed sanitation and it took half a day for us to make it pass and all we heard was how strict we were versus breweries.

 

My point was that any beer is going to be more enjoyable if the source is enjoyable.

 

Not deliberately. That would be weird. I understand your analogy now - so thanks for clarifying. I think people responding to you didn't understand what you were actually getting at. Applying that "something valuable is lost through the process" analogy to beer might often be a case of mind over matter though. In the past, there was more of a convention in the US that bottled/canned beer was pasteurized and that kegged beer was not. Much of the prejudice or reasoning behind people thinking draught beer was better was attributed to this (or to the idea that they went through different forms of pasteurization). That convention is far from a rule today and it applied more to what we currently think of as US macro beer. People who drink craft beer and imports might be drinking pasteurized kegged beer or unpasteurized bottled beer... but the old "bottles are inferior" stigma is strong and still sticks for people regardless. Beer freshness was also part of that stigma - with the assumption that kegged beer was somehow automatically fresher, but that's often a leap of faith on the part of the consumer... and the freshness aspect wouldn't fit the music analogy.

 

Yeah, jus' kiddin' about my opinion vs his groups'. But, early on, in that era in fact, I learned to question most beer ratings (that's true right up until today and this site's reviews ) because there was little to no agreement among them.

Robertson's book, in fact, even got a negative "review" as it were from the industry publication The Brewers Digest, in addition there was also some controversy over the Robertson group's review and ratings (added in red) of Huber's Augsburger and Regal Brau - which were well-known to be the same beer, just packaged in different bottles/labels. (Regal Brau was in returnable/refillable brown longnecks and sold locally, Augsburger was in a T/A green select-like bottle and was near national in distribution).


@steveh - IIRC, wasn't Huber's brewmaster Hans Kestler featured in radio ads in the Chicago region?

As for those US-brewed hoppy, golden ales of that pre-craft era, the reviews in those early beer books were all over the place:

For

For awhile there in that era, I found all the many ratings of beers in books and magazine and newspaper article so amusing in their great disparity that I used to keep a spreadsheet (a literal paper and pen list on 11.5" X 16" graph paper in that pre-home computer period) of them. It got too unweildy, tho' - I mean, after all there were 50 breweries and well over a hundred beers brewed in the US. Needless to say, the most variation in ratings were for the national macros, some listed them as among the best (Porter, above, had Budweiser, Michelob, Coors and Stroh's on his list of the 10 best) while others (like Mike Royko's group) put it at the bottom.

 

This is both amusing and very true.

 

@jesskidden -- yes, Hans was kind of a star in the area -- even had his own Oktoberfest "rap."

Got to meet the legend just before he passed, a very quiet and reserved man. The commercials were a caricature of sorts.

 

For me at least, none of this has to do with pasteurization, and I wasn’t even aware of that distinction or stigma. Anecdotally, one of the most recent times I had beer on tap we went to Bale Breaker’s Seattle location, enjoyed some pints in their beer garden. All of the beers I had were far more carbonated than anything I’ve had from this brewery in cans, but in a good way. The bubbles were just bursting vigorously from the bottom of the glass, and I think this contributed to a more “live” taste and mouthfeel in the beer. I’m sure it has to do with the amount of pressure a keg can withstand compared to a bottle or can, or something else very technical—but the result was a more enjoyable, flavorful pint.

I’ve never done this, even though it would be pretty easy to do—but I’d bet that if you did a blind side-by-side of the same beer, even from the same batch, one from a can/bottle and one on tap, you could easily tell them apart and would prefer the tap version in all or most cases. There’s just something about how the beer is stored—maybe it has to do with pressure, maybe it’s keeping it in a larger volume—that allows draft beer to be closer to its true self than beer packaged in smaller, portable containers. It tastes, smells, and feels just a little bit fresher and more “alive” than its canned counterpart. That’s why I think the music analogy is apt, because in both cases you have fewer intermediate steps/processes getting between you and the original product.

Unfortunately, I consume the vast majority of my beer from cans and bottles and listen to my music from recorded sources—for the simple reason that to drink beer on tap and listen to live music you have to put on pants—but also, in the case of music, because most of my favorite artists are dead.