Belgian Candi Sugar --- Experiment

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by firstthenlast, Mar 7, 2018.

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  1. firstthenlast

    firstthenlast Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2013 Massachusetts

    Hello,

    I have been wanting to use homemade belgian candi syrup for for quite some time. I have followed several protocols and despite having a strong science background have not felt comfortable ever actually using the product in a live brew. In all events I have suspected that a significant portion of the color change was attributed to cararmelization. I took the product from below and will ferment 1lbs in one gallon and compare to a table sugar control as well as a caramelized control.

    My process.

    -Dissolve 2 lbs of sugar into a minimal amount of pH 9.5 water (I used food grade lime). Add 1 tsp DAP (traditional amino acid OK as well)
    -Slowly heat to desired temp, I did three batches 250F, 260F and 270F, each was slightly darker than the last
    -Cool with drops of cold water to 240F, "softball", then cool to RT
    -Product color ranged from amber to rose to a rich dark red. Little caramel flavor, tastes of dark dried fruit was the highlight

    My understanding of the science is that the basic conditions are absolutely key. The Maillard reaction will happen at either high or low ph (even 7 if you heat it high enough and long enough). HOWEVER, at low pH, the sucrose will hydrolyze. This is a problem and will create significant caramelization. Sucrose will caramelize at 320F, well above the temp in above reaction and what is required for Maillard reaction. But if sucrose hydrolyzes (it cannot do so in basic conditions) to fructose and glucose rapid caramelization will occur in the fructose, caramelization of fructose occurs at 230F, at or below the temperature that initiates the Maillard reaction.

    Hopefully my product is equally fermentable as table sugar, and more so than caramelized sugar. Based on taste there is little truly caramelized flavor left.

    Will keep people posted, I am shocked by the number of blog posts saying that you can use acidic conditions to make dark Candi syrup. Acid will create an inverted product, but any color change is purely caramelization.
     
    #1 firstthenlast, Mar 7, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    machalel and MrOH like this.
  2. machalel

    machalel Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2012 Australia

    +1000 thank you for this. I think the vast majority* of people are confused about caramelisation vs maillard reaction.



    * almost everyone?
     
    #2 machalel, Mar 9, 2018
  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Wikipedia, the source of all that is true, says

    "Caramelization is an entirely different process from Maillard browning, though the results of the two processes are (1) sometimes similar to the naked eye (and taste buds). (2)Caramelization may sometimes cause browning in the same foods in which the Maillard reaction occurs, but the two processes are distinct. They are both promoted by heating, but the Maillard reaction involves amino acids, as discussed above, whereas caramelization is simply the pyrolysis of certain sugars."

    I added the numbers because I thought they were interesting. (1) seems to validate both processes as color and flavor enhancers, and (2) seems to contradict at least part of what I think you are saying about the processes happening under distinctly different conditions. I'm not an expert by any means on these chemistries, and am guilty of cherry picking some points after glossing over the scientific details. I am interested on your take on these points.

    RE: (1) - the various instructions for making English invert brewing sugars seem to go the acid/caramel route and I think most people agree that these sugars are effective flavoring agents of beer, although the results may be (?) distinctly different from what you are getting with the basic/maillard approach. I encourage you to brew with your results or share them with friends who would brew with them. I have tried both approaches, not systematically, and enjoyed the results.

    My guess is you are familiar with this blog post supporting your position: http://ryanbrews.blogspot.com/2012/02/candy-syrup-right-way-hint-weve-been.html
     
    #3 pweis909, Mar 9, 2018
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  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    They are different. I’ve read Harold Magee’s sections on those in “On Food and Cooking”, that has some good info.
     
    #4 hopfenunmaltz, Mar 9, 2018
  5. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Not disputing that they are different so much as I was pointing out that they each seem to have a place in beer.
     
    #5 pweis909, Mar 9, 2018
  6. csurowiec

    csurowiec Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2010 Maryland

    I have tried the acid route to make invert. I used lactic acid to drop my ph. It made a wonderful flavorful product for brewing. It was the color of pancake syrup and had an intricate dry fruit raisiny flavor that to my tongue seemed less sweet than regular sugar.
    Now I want to try the basic route to see what the taste difference is. I have food grade lime so I will give it a shot.
     
    #6 csurowiec, Mar 10, 2018
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