berliner (the cliff notes version)

Purged keg.

 

OK I don't keg. What's the next best way to sour in the kettle?

 

I have been schooled.

 

I've never had that issue in lacto starters (which I run on a stir-plate).

 

I could count the number of commercial sour-mashed beers I've tried that didn't have something in the cheese-foot spectrum on one hand.

 

I was thinking of something known to another lacto group and erroneously extending it to beer

https://www.researchgate.net/public...olerance_in_the_Lactobacillus_plantarum_group

 

OK so I decided that I am i will dedicate a bucket to sour worting and try the week long sour wort like @FATC1TY

If I have the fermentor lid and airlock on is it still necessary to cover the top with plastic wrap?

Also i don't have a way to purge with O2 so what's the best way to avoid oxygen? Seltzer? And how to do it?

 

You don't need to cover the top with plastic wrap as long as you've got an airlock on your carboy. Once the wort is below 110 ºF, I would just toss in a half pound of uncrushed grain, top off with a bit of seltzer water (i used like 1/4 can) and seal the top with the lid/airlock immediately after adding the seltzer. Refrain from taking the lid/airlock off for the first few days, and the lacto fermentation will create CO2 and purge the headspace of any O2. I didn't have a problem (i.e. any off flavors) doing it this way.

 

I don't spend an extra $8 on a vial of lacto when it's in the air we're breathing.

 

I don't get mine (directly) from the air, but a pound of 2-row is also cheaper than a vial of lacto. It's also likely to have more than one strain.

 

It's not a problem for me. I purge the O2 and control the temperature.

 

Doesn't mean that it will be as quick/reliable and easy to use as an $8 vial. There is plenty of Saccharomyces available in nature, but I'm usually pickier.

 

@VikeMan @Lukass @BigHornyDevil

I haven't quite got the science down yet, and I'm not sure how the sour wort will react to my yeast.
Will one pack of us-05 do the trick for a clean ferment without worrying about the low ph?

 

More than likely. I use a liquid version of that strain with no issues. I do pitch at a lager-like rate, though I'm not really sure how necessary that is.

 

I pitched 1 pkg of 05 in 4.5 gal. OG was 1.038 pre souring, pH was 3.7 at pitching. FG was 1.010 after 10 days at 72. Just my experience with my first batch.

 

Edit: FG did not change from day 7 to day 10.

 

I just know yeast tend to struggle a bit more in a low pH (sour) environment, so I'd do what Vike suggested. I didn't really have the science down either, but a starter of Wyeast 1007 and a half pack of US-05 co-pitch is what I used, and it got the job done. Expect a slower, not so vigorous fermentation with this one.

 

3.5 pH is where you can start running into trouble. At a minimum I'd add some extra yeast nutrient to add post-souring and re-hydrate the yeast. Some strains (like 3711) are anecdotally more receptive to low pH, but there isn't a comprehensive list that I'm aware of for pH tolerance.

I like my Berliner's bone dry, sub 1.004 anyway.