Berliner time.. Bring me your best.

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by FATC1TY, Feb 20, 2014.

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  1. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I could be wrong but I was always under the impression that a sour mash meant keeping the grains in the mash the entire time.
     
  2. jivex5k

    jivex5k Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2011 Florida

    That's what I thought, it's how I plan on doing mine today.
    No sparge BIAB, let mash sit at 110F until sour, then squeeze the bag, bring to boil.
    From reading this thread though it sounds like it's impossible to get an accurate OG reading this way.
     
  3. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    Your right, but we weren't talking about sour mashing.. Mashing like normal, and then souring the wort.
     
  4. jivex5k

    jivex5k Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2011 Florida

    Interesting.
    What are the benefits of one vs the other?
    I'd imagine with souring the wort the temp wouldn't hold as steady without the right equipment vs souring the mash.
     
  5. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Missed that detail. Good call. :slight_smile:
     
  6. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    Yeah, holding the temp would be harder for just souring the wort, versus souring the mash. Especially if you hold your mash in a cooler.

    The downside of doing it with the mash, IMO, is the possibly issue with getting the wrong kind of funk going on. If you get it right, it's pretty easy to repeat. But you'll need to make sure you keep most 02 out, cover it with saranwrap, and hold the temp.

    Thats why I did a sour wort, but I went an extra step and made it a bit easier, without needing any extra equipment. I didn't care to keep it heated with a band or blanket. So I left it at the ambient 70* that I could maintain. I purged it with co2, and then used seltzer water for the two times I checked on the sourness. I had NO funky or disgusting aromas that you'd get from a sour mash.

    I don't have time during the week to brew. So I do it on the weekends. My method, allowed me to take the wort from Sunday, till Saturday to sour, and then do a quick boil on it. Worked great for me, and I was able to repeat it again, same schedule, and get pretty much the same taste.
     
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  7. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    Yeah, no problem. There's a bunch of ideas people have tossed out in the thread.. It's become more of a tips and tricks thread to berliners now. I'm happy with it.
     
  8. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    DAY1.
    So I brewed my sour wort Berliner today. Thought I'd go over my process and then also let everyone know how it turns out in a couple weeks.
    Recipe- 5lbs domestic 2row, 4lbs white wheat, 7 oz acid malt.
    Mashed in @152f 1.25 qt/lb. Mash ph was a touch high at 5.6 but let it ride. Added 3 ml of lactic acid to my sparge water to bring its ph to 5.9 so I was not worried about tannin extraction on today's fly sparge( I usually batch). Took about 50 minutes to fly sparge into a sanitized bucket where I collected about 5.6 gallons of wort at a ph of 5.3. Waited for the wort to reach 120f. Pitched 9oz of acid malt. OG 1.039. I went a touch high here cuz the lacto is gonna lower this some without making alcohol and I want at least 3 or 3.5% ABV. Flushed with co2. Added 3 sheets of sanitized Saran Wrap on top of wort to keep O2 at bay. Now I'll wait. I'm gonna add a heating pad to the beer to try and keep it in the high 70's maybe 80's. Will check sourness every couple days. Once sour enough ill do a 15 minute boil, bitter with EKG to 9 ibu. Fermenting with top cropped wy kolsch yeast starter.

    I was gonna lower my worts ph to 4.5-4.8 per chad yakobson, in the bucket but I was worried the 9 oz of acid malt already was gonna get me close.

    I'm looking forward to how this thing works out.
     
  9. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    So you used uncrushed acid malt to sour it?

    Interesting it.. Curious if it'll help you sour faster since the malt is already soured with lacto, but ALL grain has lacto on it anyways.

    EDIT:

    Here's a pic of the one I'm drinking today.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Boozecamel

    Boozecamel Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2011 Canada (BC)

    This thread has been a great read, and I'm thinking of trying FATC1TY.'s method. Without CO2 should i still be ok?
     
  11. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    Sure.

    Buy some bottled plain seltzer water. Top off the fermenter with a little bit of it. The high carbonation will help flush much of the o2 from the headspace, to atleast minimize any issues.
     
  12. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    @FATC1TY no the acid malt was crushed. I went with it to get my ph lower hopefully too. Supposedly getting a lower ph pre sour will help with head retention.
     
  13. Boozecamel

    Boozecamel Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2011 Canada (BC)

    Thanks for the tip. Will post my results!
     
  14. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    So the acid malt you added to the wort was crushed?

    For the future, I'd just keep it whole, much easier to strain out, and doesn't really help any to crush it.

    I understand using it in the mash, I was asking about you using it in the wort to pitch the natural lacto on the grain.
     
  15. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    Also, in terms of head retention, my two brews have had really nice heads on them, great lacing. I can't recall what the pH was for them though off the top of my head.
     
  16. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Yea I wish I coulda kept them whole. I have to order all my grains crushed unfortunately.
     
  17. trevord13

    trevord13 Initiate (0) Sep 30, 2010 Virginia

    Finally got my berliner kegged on Wed and had the first few pulls Sunday afternoon. It came out quite tart, and very refreshing. This will be a standby all summer with various fruit treatments. Thanks for all the help FATCITY!

    Grain Bill:
    German Pilsner (52%)
    White Wheat (44.5%)
    Crytal 10 (3.5%)
     
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  18. soheadyithurts

    soheadyithurts Zealot (551) Jan 4, 2013 Massachusetts

    What are you using to flush the headspace with CO2?
     
  19. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    You can use the hose from your kegerator, put it in the carboy and turn it on, and flush the headspace for a couple seconds. You can use a wand or something. I used my beer gun, and just purged co2 into the carboy, since I have it hooked up to a manifold in my keezer anyways, just a flip of a valve.

    If you don't have a co2 bottle, you can use seltzer water. Doesn't need to be a ton, and it's a light and low ABV beer, so a little extra water isn't gonna hurt. Pour it in and the co2 will flush the headspace enough for extra insurance.

    Or you can buy something like this, and use it to purge headspaces if you don't intend to keg, but like to do beers that benefit from lack of o2 in the headspace. Would be ideal for long aging beers, sours, and even ipas.
    http://morebeer.com/products/co2-injector-w1-cartridge.html?gclid=CMaUjffs4L0CFSwV7AodsH0Ahg
     
  20. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    How was the crystal in your recipe? Mine was similar, minus the crystal. More for color?
     
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