BIAB question: adding an additional lautering step

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by od_sf, Oct 30, 2013.

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  1. od_sf

    od_sf Initiate (0) Nov 2, 2010 California

    Hi all,

    Using the BIAB process, I get a fair amount of grain "residue" (for lack of better word) in my wort. I've been thinking about adding an additional step to the process to remedy this, between mashout and the start of the boil. I'm thinking that, right after mashout, I could transfer the wort from the brew pot into another container via a funnel equipped with a very thin mesh screen, then transfer the filtered wort back to the brew kettle to start the boil. I'm hoping that this would get rid of some of the mash debris, making the wort more fluid, and resulting in clearer beer. I have no idea if there are any negatives to doing this, though, and would love feedback from more experienced BIAB brewers.

    How would a wort temperature drop between mashout and the start of boil affect the final product?

    Cheers,

    od
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Straining the wort will result in what is termed Hot Side Aeration (HSA). It has been mentioned in the past (over ten years ago) that HSA can result in oxidation and consequent premature staling of the beer. There are many people who think that HAS/Oxidation is a myth and that it will not impact your beer. I do not know if there is anything definitive on this topic.

    What is classically done to clarify wort is conducting a vorlauf. Below is a link detailing the vorlauf (recirculation) process. One way to ‘mimic’ this process as occurs using the BIAB method would be to place your bag in a ‘vessel’ which has a false bottom and a ‘spigot’ at the bottom. For folks who conduct partial mashes (i.e., smaller quantities of grain), a cheap/easy method would be to place the bagged grain in a colander and recirculate the wort through the grains and collect the ‘drippings’ from the colander. Maybe you could just use a portion of your grains (e.g., 4 lbs.) as a grain bed for conducting a recirculation via the wort? You could also add a type of fly sparging if you want to obtain some more extract from the grains.

    Cheers!

    http://www.brew-dudes.com/vorlauf/681
     
    azorie likes this.
  3. afrokaze

    afrokaze Pooh-Bah (1,962) Jun 12, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I have also thought of trying something similar, the best I could think of would be to draw off the wort into another vessel then using my autosiphon to run the wort back through the grain bag using a strainer like Jack mentioned. I have been planning to build some sort of strainer that sits over my main kettle, as this would also make sparging much easier than holding a hot grain bag!
     
  4. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    Wort clarity has nothing to do with beer clarity. Boil vigorously, cool quickly . . . you'll have clear beer.

    Also a temp drop before the boil is of no consequence, peeps (including myself) produce wort on the day prior to the actual brewday without significant consequences.

    Vorlaf is for suckers.
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    What does boiling and cooling have to do with removing husk particles?
     
  6. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    I knew you were going to comment, Ed Grimley. Husk particles have nothing to do with beer clarity. Protein coagulation relates to beer clarity.
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You think there is only one thing that relates to beer clarity? Ok.
     
  8. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    Once your grist and yeast are selected, yes.
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Do you think grain husk particles can't make it into the finished beer? Or do you think they can, but can't affect clarity if they do?
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have zero desire to get in between the debate about beer clarity.

    The issue that I would be concerned about with husks getting into the boil of the wort is tannin extraction from the husk. I prefer that my wort be clear of husk material since I do not want any tannins being extracted during the boil. I do not know for a fact that tannins are extracted from husk material during the boil but I am most definitely concerned about that issue. My solution is that I vorlauf to ensure that there is no husk material in my wort. I have never noticed any tannins in my beers and I think that the vorlauf helps in that regard.

    Needless to say but YMMV,

    Cheers!
     
  11. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    Build a mash tun, it will save you a lot of mess and effort in the long run.
     
    azorie and jsullivan02130 like this.
  12. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Having experienced many BiaBs...
    What is this 'residue' about which you speak?
    All wort carries some residue from the grist.
    Wort residue is reduced with a vigorous boil and a speedy post-boil chill.

    Also...
    Highly flocculate yeast makes for clearer beer.
    Finings added to the wort near the end of fermentation makes for clearer beer.
    Cold-crash before bottling makes for clearer beer.
    An 'extended' period of cold-conditioning makes for clearer beer.
    No dry hops produces a more clear beer.

    As for how a "(drop) in wort temperature...between mashout and the start of boil affect(ing) the final product"?
    A: Nil.
     
  13. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    If grain husk is making it into your kettle, it sounds to me like the mesh size (microns?) of your BIAB bag might be too porous? Did you make a bag out of Swiss Voile from a fabric shop? Did you buy a premade BIAB bag specifically designed for BIAB? Or are you using something closer to a paint strainer bag?
     
  14. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Perhaps the OP is re-imagining fish-net stockings? :slight_smile:
     
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  15. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    I rarely vorlaf. I have husk particles in most of my batches of wort. I have NEVER had a husk particle in my finished beer. I have clear beer.
     
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I guarantee you have had husk particles in you beer. We all have. Haze, however subtle, is not caused by particles big enough for you to see directly. They only have to be larger than the wavelength (about 400-700 nanometers) of the visible light that is therefore scattered by them. Vorlaufing reduces the amount of particles.

    I am glad your beer is clear to your satisfaction.
     
  17. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    Become educated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes'_law
     
  18. od_sf

    od_sf Initiate (0) Nov 2, 2010 California

    Improved beer clarity is only one aspect that I hope to improve on, the other is that with BIAB, I ended up with some grain particles in the wort, which go in the fermenter and end up as trub. I'd like to decrease this if possible.

    I use a bag sold speficically for BIAB by Northern Brewers. Indeed, though, the mesh size is not quite as fine as I wish it was.

    It seems like the less grain residue, particle, junk, or whatever you want to call it ends up in your wort, the better it would be for the beer in the end, and I'm always trying to improve my process, hence this thread.
     
  19. od_sf

    od_sf Initiate (0) Nov 2, 2010 California

    Yes I realize that all wort will carry *some* residue, but I assume that less is better.
    Unfortunately, I have to brew in a kitchen, so my boil is not quite as vigorous as I wish it was (I already abandoned doing 5 gallon all grain batches because of this. I now only do 2.5 gallon all grain BIAB)
    Also, it is impossible to connect a wort chiller to my kitchen faucet, so I'm stuck with cooling 2.5 gallons of wort via ice bath.

    Yes, I do all those things when possible & appropriate.

    Thanks, good to know!
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

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