Bitburger Brewery Releases Festbier

Discussion in 'Beer Releases' started by M-Fox24, Jul 22, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Brewing at different times to hit a release date for different markets? Wow, I never would have thought of that. /S
     
  2. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    But, but, but --- they (well, some of 'em) are "Märzenbiers" - what would
    Urgroßvater say? :astonished:
     
    unlikelyspiderperson likes this.
  3. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Domestic beers.
     
    AlcahueteJ, FBarber and steveh like this.
  4. EmperorBatman

    EmperorBatman Zealot (741) Mar 16, 2018 Tennessee

    Yes, these beers are hardly brewed in March anymore!

    I've always wondered, though, how did Münchner brewers settle on Märzen as the beer of Oktoberfest?
     
  5. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Now I have to dig into the archives... Give me some time...
     
  6. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Not sure how much it's helping their marketing outside of BA.
    My Google search for "Bitburger Oktoberfest”, other than hits on THE Oktoberfest, 19 of the first 23 results are for the 2019 SN collaboration. I was halfway down the second page before a hit on the 2020 release.
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
  7. bsp77

    bsp77 Pooh-Bah (2,185) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    Well, yeah, I only meant it is keeping it top of mind here.
     
    AlcahueteJ and officerbill like this.
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Beer as served at the Oktoberfest celebration is somewhat complicated since things changed over time. The below linked article pretty much covers this topic.

    The very first Oktoberfest celebration

    “In 1810, Bavaria’s King Maximillian I. Joseph declared a 2-day festival in mid-October to celebrate the wedding of his son, Prince Ludwig to Princess Therese. Free beer and food were offered at various locations across Munich, music and dancing were enjoyed by guests, and even a horse race was held. The spectacle, which was as much a demonstration of national unity as a wedding, was such a hit among the royal family and its people that they decided to hold a similar celebration, complete with beer and horse races, the following year. The celebration was eventually lengthened and pushed back on the calendar a few weeks to accommodate better weather.”

    The beers served in the early 1800’s Oktoberfest Celebration

    Since it was a law that beer not be brewed after the month of April (since beers brewed in warm weather often were contaminated by wild yeast and other unwanted microorganisms) the beers that would be served in an October celebration would be those beers brewed the previous spring (e.g., March).

    “Early on in Oktoberfest’s history, the beer served was likely a darker lager more along the lines of the Munich dunkels of today. The use of crystal and Munich malts, a reserved noble hop regiment and moderately carbonate water create a clean-drinking, malt-forward lager that is sweet but not cloying.”

    Then came 1872

    “Then, the story goes, in 1872 one of the approved Oktoberfest breweries ran out of precious dark lager while trying to quench the thirst of attendees during an exceptionally hot summer. Instead of accepting defeat and very likely losing their coveted contract with Munich Oktoberfest, the brewery brought in a stronger (about 8%), Vienna-style lager. Even with a slightly higher price, the alternative was a hit, and bock-strength lagers increased in popularity up until the time of World War I.”

    But what about the last 3 decades?

    The beer that is served at the Oktoberfest celebration today (and for the recent past) is no longer an Amber beer. The contemporary Oktoberfest beer is a pale beer akin to an Export Helles.

    Time marches on!

    Cheers!

    https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/the-history-of-beer-at-oktoberfest/
     
    KentT and officerbill like this.
  9. grantcty

    grantcty Savant (1,016) Feb 17, 2008 Minnesota
    Trader

    To add to what Jack posted, the brewery/brewer was Josef Sedlmayr of Franziskaner. I believe he modeled his amber lager to be similar to Dreher's Vienna lager.

    http://allaboutbeer.com/article/marzenoktoberfest/

    Edit: Here's a more detailed article from All About Beer: http://allaboutbeer.com/article/oktoberfest-style/

    I also believe that @Crusader has posted about this in the past, including adverts for Sedlmayr's beer before its introduction at the Wies'n.
     
  10. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I post a link to this article every season, guess a prompt is as good as any excuse. :wink:

    Toward the end of the article is a chapter titled: Josef and the Oktoberfest, wherein it reads:
    *This is why Spaten's Okto is labeled as "Ur," or "original." It was more of a marketing term because it was considered a "true" Märzen because it actually was lagered over the time -- not just brewed in quantity in March to be consumed over the summer into the autumn when brewing could start again.

    The story goes that the summer of 1872 was rather warm and most of the summer stores of beer had been depleted and the Fest was near to running dry when Sedlmayr brought out his new beer.
     
    AlcahueteJ and FBarber like this.
  11. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    "The Schottenhamel barn still stands, the venue where Spaten Ur-Märzen is served. The ceremonious first keg is breached there by the mayor of Munich."
    Where I had my first Maß of Oktoberfest in Munich many years ago.
     
    AlcahueteJ and grantcty like this.
  12. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    There's some food for thought found here, here and here.
     
    AlcahueteJ, grantcty and FBarber like this.
  13. grantcty

    grantcty Savant (1,016) Feb 17, 2008 Minnesota
    Trader

    Thanks! In particular, I like this post, where you showed two ads of the märzenbier being available daily in the spring of 1871 and 1872.
     
    steveh and FBarber like this.
  14. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    One could also consider the two subsequent posts of mine here.

    As per Carl Jacobsen's letter Dreher's Vienna Märzen was brewed to 15% balling and it weighed 4.9%-5.8% Balling, which would mean roughly around 5-5.49% abv. So around 5.3% abv with an estimated wort strenght of 15% for the Munich beer vs around 5-5.5% at a wort stenght of 15% for the Vienna Märzen (the span for the Vienna Märzen obviously influenced by secondary fermentation, no doubt a factor also in Munich). No doubt Oscar Knab, brewery technician at Franziskaner Leistbräu knew as well as Carl Jacobsen did that the Vienna Märzen was being brewed to around 15% Balling and they copied/emulated its wort strenght.

     
    grantcty and FBarber like this.
  15. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    This was the only brewery offering the beer at the time. Jackson mentions Sedlmayr offering this new beer to his customers to get their opinions -- guess it went over well. :wink:
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
  16. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, the question then becomes, and it is an interesting one, when were these beers brewed (those served in the spring of 1871)? In the fall/winter of 1870? Spring of 1870? December 1869? If we look at Oscar Knab's article we find that that beer was put into barrels, i.e put in the cellar, on 23rd of January 1871.

    The idea that Märzenbier was specifically brewed in March (as opposed to from December to the halting of brewing in April) is not supported by any Bavarian 1800s sources that I've come across, and I have come across plenty and read plenty. So I think we need to decouple the Märzenbier from the idea that it was brewed specifically in March.

    March was just one of the months to brew Märzenbier in. And here we also need to remember that Märzenbier, lagerbier and sommerbier was one and the same thing as far as Bavarian brewing was concerned. They didn't brew lagerbier in winter and Märzenbier in March, they were both the same beer and brewed throughout the brewing season for sommerbier/summer beer (which is what Märzenbier was, summer beer, as opposed to winter beer). The Austrians invented the separation between the term Lagerbier and Märzenbier (lagerbier being weaker, Märzenbier being stronger) and when the Vienna Märzenbier was copied this concept of a separation was introduced to Bavaria, not the other way around. I harp on these things alot but I feel it represents the most basic tenets of understanding Bavarian and Austrian brewing in the 1800s that one simple has to learn in order to make sense of the history.

    We can't look back and interpret history from our modern day vantage point ("the Märzenbier was brewed in March because it was called Märzen and was brewed to 8% abv in order to keep during the summer because a high abv is how beers are able to be stored for a long time while the hopping was reserved because they wanted the malt to shine through"), we have to understand the historical context, and thankfully there is a wealth of literature in this area, much of it in German however.
     
    #196 Crusader, Jul 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
    AlcahueteJ, TongoRad, FBarber and 2 others like this.
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Patrik, do you know when the 'concept' of Märzen denoting a beer strength became a German (Bavarian) law/rule?

    Cheers!

    @patto1ro
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
  18. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Wow, want to get even more confused over the history of Oktoberfest/Märzen? Check out the contradictions in this article from last year. Did anyone post it then? I don't recall.

    "In 1953, the party tent world was turned upside down with the arrival of the light-colored Augustiner “Edelstoff,” which knocked the traditionally amber-colored Märzen off the podium as the most popular Oktoberfest bier."

    Really. '53. Edelstoff. :thinking_face: Never mind all the Amber Märzen I saw at the Fest 40 years later.

    And hasn't Paulaner, itself, laid claim to the introduction of the Wiesn Fest style?
     
    AlcahueteJ, grantcty and FBarber like this.
  19. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't think I will have a start date for you in either case, but do you mean the modern "Märzen is a beer over 13% plato" regulation or the older Bavarian concept of Märzenbier being brewed with more malt per barrel than winterbier? By the start of the 1800s Märzenbier denoted that a beer was a braunbier, so using kiln dried malt and bottom fermented, it also denoted that it was brewed sometime between September and April and was not served ahead of May first and would be on the market until it ran out sometime around September/October/November. It also denoted that it was brewed to a scheffel (volume measurement for malt) to eimer (volume measurement for beer) ratio which was dictated by law. The ratio was higher for sommerbier/Märzenbier compared with winterbier, so the term denoted strenght in this sense already by then. When you get as far back as the 1700s the sources start to dry up, go back to the 1600s and you will probably need a physical library in Bavaria I'm guessing.
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
  20. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Check out my post here. The Augustiner Bräu website's Oktoberfest page doesn't work for me, but the information below I took right off their Oktoberfest history page last year:

    "Concerning the ongoing debate about the evolution of the beer served at Oktoberfest I thought it was interesting that according to Augustinerbräu's website, in 1953 they served their "Wiesn-Edelstoff" for the first time. It was a paler colored Festbier which gradually replaced the then common Märzenbier."

    On the website for the Wagner foundation in the history timeline for the years 1925 and 1953 it reads:

    1925
    EINFÜHRUNG DER BIERSORTE „EDELSTOFF“

    "Introduction of the beer brand „EDELSTOFF“"

    1953
    EINFÜHRUNG DER BIERSORTE „WIESN-EDELSTOFF“

    "Introduction of the beer brand „WIESN-EDELSTOFF“"

    The tent still has Edelstoff signage:

    [​IMG]

    Already in 1935 they were serving the anno 1925 Edelstoff Hell at Oktoberfest next to their Märzenbier.
    [​IMG]
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.