Blending in the US

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by MasterSki, Oct 16, 2012.

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  1. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I was wondering what the legalities were regarding blending existing commercial beer for the purpose of resale?

    In Europe there are a number of beers that contain lambic (various De La Senne, Norrebro Sason Lambic Pinot Noir, Eszett Gueuze, etc.) and I was curious if the US had laws that prevented a brewery from purchasing lambic-in-a-box and adding it to its beers. I know some breweries use dregs, and that mixing alcohol types is forbidden (i.e. pouring spirits directly into beer), but what about mixing malt-based beverages?

    I realize that shipping large volumes of beer for blending doesn't make much sense financially and that collaborations generally involve both/all beers being brewed at one facility (i.e. Baller Stout, Isabelle Proximus, etc.), but what if two breweries like Cascade and Logsdon wanted wanted to blend some wild barrels for a festival?
     
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  2. Rutager

    Rutager Initiate (0) Oct 18, 2010 Canada (BC)

  3. nathanjohnson

    nathanjohnson Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2007 Vermont

    I know of a beer that's will be lambic blended coming out in the near future, so it's legal. I assume the transportation logistics and limited supply (Does Boon, Cantillon, Girardin, etc really have excess capacity?)
     
  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    DFH Burton Baton is a blend of 2 beers.

    Bells Black Note is a blend of Expedition Stout and Double Cream Stout.

    Those 2 are off the top of my head.
     
  5. GennyCreamAle

    GennyCreamAle Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2009 New York

  6. immobilisme

    immobilisme Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2005 Illinois

    This probably doesn't help much, but I could have swore Hill Farmstead said something about blending lambic, but that could have just been me remembering MasterSki's review of Saison Lambic Pinot Noir.

    I do remember a thread back before the crash that stated belgiuminabox stopped shipping lambic in a box to US addresses, but they may have changed that? I don't really know if a state-side brewery can go about getting lambic straight from Belgium through personal connections though.

    In conclusion, I do not know.

    EDIT: Is Hill Farmstead the only brewery to use dregs from another brewery or are there others?
     
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  7. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    These are both blended by their respective brewers. I think OP is taking about blending using other brewery's products.
     
  8. immobilisme

    immobilisme Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2005 Illinois

    I believe the question is asking if beers from different breweries could be blended within the law of the United States. Breweries already do a fair amount of blending their own beers (Firestone Walker, Bruery, etc, etc)
     
  9. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    A brewery blending their own beer(s) before packaging and before the excise tax paid, etc., is obviously legal. As is "blending" on the retail level (the making of black & tans, etc).

    In between, it would probably depend a lot on how the TTB views it. There are rules about brewers selling other brewers "beer concentrate" and unfermented wort - perhaps a brewery could convince the Feds that the finished beer is really an "ingredient" to be blended with another beer at another brewery. Brewers have legally shipped beer in bulk to be packaged at another brewery (Matt shipped their beer to Genesee after their canned line was destroyed, and Harpoon ships beer from Vermont to be canned at Matt) - don't know how that is arranged as far as excises taxes go.

    Generally, a brewer has to pay excise tax on any beer that leaves the brewery - if that beer was then blended with another beer at another site, it would then in theory have to pay excise tax again when it leaves the "blending" brewery.
     
  10. FosterJM

    FosterJM Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2009 California

    Right. I think we are all lost on this one, but we will continue to post anyway.

    Cheers!
     
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  11. immobilisme

    immobilisme Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2005 Illinois

    Oh! Collage! Duh.

    Were all of the original beers brewed at either Deschutes or Hair of the Dog? This could be the answer...
     
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  12. tendermorsel

    tendermorsel Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2006 Massachusetts

    This is an excellent question.

    We have stupid alcohol laws here in the states. I know there are a few people over in Belgium (Uli and others) who buy wort at lambic breweries age it and blend into Gueuze. Basically they are home Gueuze blenders. The stuff I have tried has been real real good. I spent 2 weeks tickin beers in Europe and THE best beer I tried on the entire trip was a home blended S. Kriek that I was given a pour at the Borfets beers fest. (It wasn't Uli BTW). Amazing stuff. I am not sure if this would fly over here. Someone buying wort at a brewery and aging it and bottling on there own. I doubt it. Someone stateside would find some issue with that.

    There are some blended beers that are legally sold here stateside though I am pretty sure they are blended over there. I know Cueve De Ranke and Kriek De Ranke are ales blended with Girardin (I believe).

    BTW the De La Senne lambic blended stuff I have tried has been awesome. Too bad they are the only people Cantillon will share there beer with:slight_frown:
     
  13. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

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  14. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    How about this one?
    http://www.ommegang.com/#!beer_three
     
  15. GennyCreamAle

    GennyCreamAle Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2009 New York

    Ok. Looks like hopfenunmaltz found two nice examples.
     
  16. immobilisme

    immobilisme Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2005 Illinois

    Birra Del Borgo makes Duchessic, which is blended with Cantillon lambic... it is blended overseas of course: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/14046/53841
     
  17. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    More like finally remembered those in the back of my mind. It seems like there is another I can't bring to the front.
     
  18. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

  19. brewbetter

    brewbetter Initiate (0) Jun 2, 2012 Nauru

  20. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    It wouldn't be a lie, since "Product of Belgium" and "Bottled in NY" aren't mutually exclusive.

    TTB regulations don't even require the name of the brewer/bottler on imports - only the importer:

     
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