Boozy Saison remedy

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Jesse14, Jun 17, 2013.

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  1. Jesse14

    Jesse14 Initiate (0) Jul 21, 2011 Massachusetts

    I wrote last week about a spike in temp during the fermentation of my saison. I just took a gravity reading after 9 days. It went from a 1.065 to a 1.003. That's 8.1%. I know it is still really "green" but it is definitely showing some "boozy" flavors that I'm afraid will overpower the whole thing. It smells and looks great though.

    This is my first Saison so I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions to combat the heat that I think this will show after carbonation. Any ideas on anything to add in during extended time in the fermenter to balance it out a little. I'm hoping some extra time in the bottle will mellow it out a little too and let the subtle flavors come forward more.
     
  2. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Let it rest for another 3 weeks then check back.
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    So, I am assuming that boozy = fusel alcohols. If that is the case then over time (and it could be a loooong time) then the yeast can metabolize the fusel alcohols.

    I would suggest two things (based upon my assumption):

    · Bulk condition your Saison for an extended period of time (as long as you feel comfortable in your bucket/carboy)

    · Bottled condition for a looooong time

    I once brewed a Saison that got too hot and it took 6 months in the bottle before the beer was enjoyable to drink. So, the ‘good news’ is that with patience your beer could potentially be a good beer to drink.

    Cheers!
     
  4. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    As others have mentioned, let is sit in primary for longer than you anticipated. How long? Not a question anyone can answer. I'd say a good start would be to let it sit in primary for 4 weeks then, if you're still not happy, take a sample every 2 weeks after that.
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    It should help. Extra time in the fermenter will help too, because the precursors needed in the pathways that change fusels (boozy) into esters (less boozy) are more likely to be present.

    Nope. Just time, as you have already noted.
     
  6. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Funny thing . . . my Saison finished at 1.004 and 8.1% (target was 7.7%). No high temps involved, rather I mashed a little too low. Ideally you want to finish dry, but we both have a little more alcohol than intended. You also have the danger of it dropping even more.

    I endorse what ever one else is saying . . . time will help it. Mine started out harsh and has improved slightly (2 months old). A more drastic technique is to "dry spice" it while in the primary. This doesn't really balance anything, but may mask the booziness. I've had success with this before using a tea-ball. So if you enjoy orange zest, pepper, et al, consider this approach.
     
  7. Jesse14

    Jesse14 Initiate (0) Jul 21, 2011 Massachusetts

    Should I keep it on the yeast for the extended bulk conditioning or do a transfer to a secondary? I've never left anything on the yeast past 3 weeks. I'm leaving for vacation at the 3 week mark and would not be able to bottle or transfer until after 4+ weeks in the primary if I didn't transfer before I leave.
     
  8. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota


    Leave it in primary.
     
  9. Smokebox_79

    Smokebox_79 Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2013 Pennsylvania

    I have a Saison thats 11.3% sitting in a carboy and I have no plans to touch it anytime soon. VERY boozy, last sample felt like a shot! It'll be nice to sit and stare at it for the next couple weeks or maybe months!
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “I've never left anything on the yeast past 3 weeks.” Don’t be concerned about leaving your beer on the yeast. It takes many, many months for yeast autolysis to occur in the homebrew scale.

    If your primary a plastic bucket or a carboy?

    Cheers!
     
  11. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Pooh-Bah (1,856) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    One of the best beers I ever made tasted like vodka the first sample I took. I let that beer sit 1.5 months and it turned out just fine.
     
  12. Jesse14

    Jesse14 Initiate (0) Jul 21, 2011 Massachusetts

    It's a 6.5 gallon carboy with just over 5.5 gallons in it.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “It's a 6.5 gallon carboy” Cool! The reason I asked is that carboys are impervious to oxygen ingress while buckets are oxygen permeable.

    Since your beer is in a carboy, you can leave the beer in there for a long time (e.g., a few months). So, you have the option to let your Saison condition for a long time (giving the yeast time to ‘process’ the fusel alcohols).

    My suggestion to you is to let your beer ‘sit’ for at least 4+ weeks. When you get back from vacation, taste a sample of your Saison and see if it still tastes boozy. If the answer is no, you can bottle it. If the sample still tastes boozy, let it sit for more time. You can periodically sample it (maybe every 1-2 weeks) and bottle when the beer tastes good to you.

    I am guessing that your Saison will turn out just fine but it really is up to the yeast & time at this juncture.

    There is a saying that homebrewers make wort and yeast make beer. You need to let the yeast continue it’s ‘job’ for your Saison.

    Your lesson learned during this batch is:

    · Fermentation temperature control is very important

    · If you let a batch get too hot, the yeast will produce fusel alcohols

    Luckily, it is possible (but not 100% guaranteed) that yeast can ‘fix’ the problems of too much fusel alcohols.

    Below are some ‘tricks’ that I use to maintain fermentation temperatures when it is the hot times of the year:

    “My homebrewing area (utility room in my half basement) is a bit too warm now (ambient about 72-73°F). My preference is to ferment my Wit beers around 70°F (although 72°F would be OK). So, since fermentation is an exothermic reaction (it produces heat) I need to ‘manage’ the fermentation temperature. Right now I am able to do that by simply placing my bucket on the basement floor; the basement floor operates like a heat sink drawing the ‘excess’ heat away. I will just use the ‘floor method’ unless the fermentation temperature exceeds 72°F. If that occurs I will place my fermenter in a shallow Rubbermaid pan (about 5 inches tall) and put water in the pan. The presence of water increases the heat sink effect by cooling a couple more degrees. If I should need even more cooling I will place a towel (or a T-shirt) around the bucket for evaporative cooling. If even more cooling is needed I add a fan to the mix. If even more cooling is required I add some ice to the water; refreezable blue ice blocks.”

    I hope you have a good vacation!

    Cheers!
     
  14. udubdawg

    udubdawg Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2006 Kansas

    last time I had this happen I brewed a really small saison and blended them. However that was a bit over 9% and I'm not generally fond of high alcohol + dry.

    but I bet your beer will be great as is.

    good luck!
    --Michael
     
  15. Jesse14

    Jesse14 Initiate (0) Jul 21, 2011 Massachusetts

    Thanks to everyone for all the advice and help on this one. I tried my best to control the temp on this going into it. I had a fermwrap with a temp controller set up on it. Its in my basement which has been holding nicely at 63 degrees. Controller was set at 72. Going along smoothly until the cats pulled the probe off the carboy for half a day before I caught it (I posted about that fiasco last week). It spiked to 84 about 5 days into fermentation and I got it back down to 72 about 12 hours later.

    So another lesson learned is to do a better job on the duct tape or buy a probe well for the carboy. Stringing up the cats will not go over well with my wife or daughter.

    I'll let the batch sit on the yeast for a while and hope it can work some magic. That's the answer I was hoping to get.
     
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