Bottle conditioning with fresh wort?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Lukass, Apr 7, 2015.

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  1. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    I've been brewing a lot of German-style beers recently, particularly dunkelweizens, and came across a really cool method for bottle conditioning that apparently Bavarian brewers have been doing for as long as we can remember – inoculating their finished wheat beers with fresh wort before bottling. This wort is called speise, the German word for meal... for the yeast. I found this article in BYO, and it suggests to:

    "draw about a quart or liter of hot wort off the kettle at the end of the boil and store it in a tightly sealed (sterile) container in the refrigerator. Add this speise to your finished dunkelweizen at priming time."

    I've been really considering trying this for my dunkelweizen, rather than adding priming sugar. Just another method I thought I'd share with those of you who haven't heard of it, and it just makes too much sense now that I think about it.

    Has anyone used this method for bottle conditioning before?
     
  2. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I've not used this method, but I think I've seen this same description used for the term 'krausening.' Was that word used in the article that you read. I'm certain that it is a German word.
     
  3. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    I conditioned with DME once which is the same general idea, but no I have not saved a part of a batch for the purpose of bottle conditioning.
     
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  4. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Yea, any word that sounds harsh is probably German :slight_smile:
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    What was detailed about adding wort is not krausening; krausening involves adding 'new' fermenting beer to an existing batch of beer. You can read more here: http://byo.com/lagering/item/966-kräusening-techniques

    Cheers!

    Edit: from the linked article: "Related brewing practices — such as adding spiese (wheat ale wort or fermenting lager beer) to a green German weizen (an ale) prior to bottling or adding a small amount of fermenting ale to help along the fermentation of a high-gravity ale — are conceptually similar to kräusening, but are technically not called kräusening."
     
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  6. Ilanko

    Ilanko Initiate (0) Aug 3, 2012 New York

    I like the idea, but never try it just because I like to achieve desire accurate CO2 level
     
  7. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    Why would you want to do this?
     
  8. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Knowing how much to use to prime to a certain level probably is not insurmountable, but I would expect a bit of trial and error. I question whether the flavor contributions of the priming approach are significant enough to matter, but if you need to say that your beer is all-malt, this is an option.
     
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  9. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    It's something new to try is all. Not saying I'm going to do it but I thought it was an interesting method for bottle conditioning
     
  10. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Yea, that's my only concern with this method too.. Especially when you're that far down the road with your beer. I'll probably cop-out come bottling time and just use sugar but it's a cool idea nonetheless
     
  11. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I tried it once and didn't notice any real difference between that batch and the last hefe I brewed. I'll personally stick to table sugar. Don't let me talk you out of it.
     
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  12. Ilanko

    Ilanko Initiate (0) Aug 3, 2012 New York

    I love the idea of bottle prim/condition with unfermented hopped wort. Just found this called gyle
    and this KRAEUSENING YOUR BEER
     
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  13. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    If you add wort it is adding Speise, which is food in German. The thinking is that it is the same OG and hopping, so minimal change to the beer.

    Krausening is adding wort at high krausen, which means partially fermented wort and active yeast. The yeast do the cleanup we all talk about and hope for, and you need to add a little more volume as the yeast have used some sugar. This was done in lager breweries, as they had a fresh batch at high Krausen that could be used on a previous beer.
     
  14. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    This is helpful, thanks.

    I think that's why I'm so intrigued by this method – you're using the beer you made to carb it up. I'm sure the end result will taste the same as if you were to add priming sugar, but it's the idea that counts :wink:
     
  15. Smokebox_79

    Smokebox_79 Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Some breweries do it so that they hold up to the Rheinheitsgeboot, to the letter of the law. I've heard of it before.
     
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  16. Mike_Aguirre

    Mike_Aguirre Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2015 Mexico

    I have a friend who does it, he brews awesome beer but he tells me it´s a delicate process to avoid beer infection. I´ll ask him more about it and bring that info here.
     
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  17. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

  18. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    Hmm, yea I never thought about how priming sugar in corn or table sugar form doesn't jive with the Rheinheitsgebot. I guess I can't claim that purity level afterall...
     
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  19. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    good thing there is no point in adhering to it.
     
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  20. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Modern interpretations of the Reinheitsgebot allows the force carbonation with CO2 recovered from fermentation, as it is "natural". The equipment to do that is not cheap.
     
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