Bottling a Wild Saison

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Thorpe429, Apr 3, 2012.

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  1. Thorpe429

    Thorpe429 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,705) Aug 18, 2008 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Over the weekend, I bottled for the first time (I've been brewing since January 2011). At the time I was thinking that I still had enough yeast in suspension to make it work, but I'm hoping for a bit of confirmation.

    The beer was based on the clone of McKenzie Saison Vautour from the BYO saison issue last year. My OG was 1.060. Final gravity was around 1.002. It originally fermented for about 2 weeks with WLP Saison II. After that, I added the Belgian Lambic Blend from Wyeast. In total, it was sitting for almost exactly 5 months. At this point, the gravity hadn't changed in months, and there was also what looked like a bit of a Brett pellicle (judging by Brett starters that I've done).

    My bottling method was that I racked the beer into a purged keg, added the sugar, filled the head space with CO2, and then rolled it around a bit to ensure the sugar went around. Then I used a Beer Gun to fill champagne-style 750s.

    Given the gravity, time spent in the carboy, and likely pellicle, is there going to be enough yeast around to carbonate the beer? I initially thought the pellicle would be enough (I sucked up a good portion of it with my auto-siphon), but now I'm questioning myself.

    Worst case scenario, I figure I'll have to uncap, use a syringe to inject some Brett, purge the neck space with CO2, and recap. I hope it doesn't come to that though.

    Thoughts?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I would encourage you first to be patient and hopeful.

    I do not have personal experience with letting a Saison go as long as you did. I have brewed several ciders where I have let them secondary in a carboy for 4-5 months. A number of my ciders carbonated just fine after a lengthy time period in the secondary carboy. A few years ago I had a pear cider which did not carbonate after the long secondary. There was CO2 in the bottles but they were under-carbonated. In my most recent cider I added some champagne dry yeast to the bottling bucket to ensure that the cider would carbonate properly.

    After my cider experiences I will now always add some dry yeast at bottling if I have an extended secondary (where extended = several months).

    I would recommend that you give your Saison several weeks to bottle condition. If after several weeks they aren’t carbonated then you should adopt a strategy to re-yeast the bottles. You could go with your proposal of a syringe and Brett yeast. I would think that some ‘plain old dry beer yeast’ would be just as good from a carbonation perspective.

    I hope that your bottles carbonate.

    Cheers!
     
  3. Thorpe429

    Thorpe429 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,705) Aug 18, 2008 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks for the reply. In the interim, I took a look at the bottles and it appears that there is some sediment forming at the bottom of the bottles, so something was definitely in there. I assume that means at least a bit of the yeast got in.

    I plan to wait at least a month before I'd worry about adding anything else. In that case, I'd rather add some Brett as opposed to whatever dry ale or champagne yeast, as I plan to keep these for awhile and would rather there be at least some bugs in the bottle.
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “I plan to wait at least a month before I'd worry about adding anything else.” Excellent idea!

    Cheers!
     
  5. LeeryLeprechaun

    LeeryLeprechaun Savant (1,094) Jan 30, 2011 Colorado
    Trader

    I bottled a wild saison about a year ago. I have opened several bottles since then. It took the beer forever to carbonate and if I had it to do over again I would have added some dry yeast at bottling time to speed up the process. I was a little worried about bottle bombs because the beer had brett in it but I think I underestimated the power of brett to carbonate the beer.
     
  6. Thorpe429

    Thorpe429 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,705) Aug 18, 2008 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    I aimed for 3 volumes of CO2, so hopefully there's enough sugar in there. The bottles are the thick-walled 750s, so I'm not concerned about bottle bombs. Also, the finally gravity was 1.001 or 1.002, so there isn't really anything there other than the sugar that I added.

    I can't believe this is my first time bottle conditioning. I probably should have done a simple beer and conditioned that one first, but I figured with enough time I could fix any issues that came up.
     
  7. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Give it awhile to do it's thing, and while you wait, keg up that Petit Farmhouse you brewed and reuse that yeast for another Saison, and another, and another. That yeast rocks! You should be good on sugars, the Brett will still easily be working at this point since you had a pellicle intact. What was the gravity before you added the Lambic Blend?
     
  8. Thorpe429

    Thorpe429 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,705) Aug 18, 2008 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm looking forward to kegging that Petit Farmhouse! I think I'll probably bottle half of that batch with some Brett, just to see how that might change things up. The Petit Saison I did a few months ago was with WLP Saison I and I really liked that, so hopefully this compares.

    I'm almost positive what was at the top of the carboy was a Brett pellicle...it looked very similar to the Brett C pellicle I had the last time I made a starter with that.

    I don't have my notes handy right now, but I believe the lambic blend went in when the gravity was around 1.012-1.015.
     
  9. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I bottled my 3724 Dupont strain Saison with Brett B last summer and took 2nd place with it in a comp last month, turned out really nice. I also diverted a gallon of my first 3726 Farmhouse onto Brett B that is still aging right now. I just rebrewed the same 3726 Saison again (I was that impressed) and took 3/4 gallon off and hit it with sour dregs in primary to test how this yeast plays with the wild kids.

    If there was a layer of white to grey powdered sugar floating on top of the beer, whether that be with odd bubbles or just flat, it would be a pellicle. That, and if it took the beer from over 1.010 down to near 1.000 in only five months, I'd think you still have some bugs going in there. Lambics continue to develop over the course of years which means that the bugs and yeasts are still working away at it. The carbonation may take longer, but it should happen. I bottled a gallon of Belgian Strong that sat for a year on dregs and oak 2+ months ago, 9+%ABV, has slight carbonation, but it is still lacking, keeping it warm and waiting..
     
  10. Thorpe429

    Thorpe429 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,705) Aug 18, 2008 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Congrats on the competition! I just entered my first competition a few weeks ago and got a gold for my Sorachi Lime Saison. It was a small competition, but I was still pretty excited about that.

    I'm fine waiting awhile for these bottles to develop. I was just hoping to confirm that I didn't screw them up from the start. Based on what I'm seeing today and what everyone has said, time is the only issue. I've waited 5 months for it already, so I'm fine waiting a month or two more for carbonation. If it takes too long this time, then the next batch I'll add some additional Brett at bottling time to work alongside the lambic blend.
     
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