Bourbon County Stout Clone Recipe Help

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Jeremy80, Oct 21, 2017.

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  1. Jeremy80

    Jeremy80 Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2017 Illinois

    I am having trouble deciding my next move on this recipe, any advice is greatly appreciated.

    I started with this recipe:
    https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/bourbon-county-stout-clone-recipe.html

    After reading several article and blogs about "Big" beers, I decided to go the "efficient" route and run two mashes, then have an extended pre-boil to get hit the target OG. Here are the specifics:

    Total Grains:
    2-row: 18lbs
    Munich Light: 5lbs
    Black Malt: 1lb
    Chocolate Malt: 1lb
    Crystal 60: 1lb
    Roasted Barley: 1lb
    Flaked wheat: 3lbs
    Total: 30lbs

    So I took 50% of the above for each mash:

    mash @ 152' for 60mins
    batch sparge @ 168'

    Batch size: 5.25
    Efficiency: 75%
    Target Vol: 6.46
    Target / Actual PreBoil OG: 1.063

    According to the boiloff calculator to get 13 gal. @ 1.063 to 1.135, i need to reduce by ~5 gal. or boil for 3.5 hours.

    My kettle isn't big enough for that volume, so I ended up utilizing 3 pots and boiling down, testing with refractometer and hydrometer along the way. Based on all my homework, I was really concerned about hitting this number, so much so I guess I didnt consider that I would blow past it. Which is what happened at some point between the 3.5 hours and the actual 1.5 boil. Either way I ended up with 5.25 gallons @ 1.153.
    I did add a 1/4 teaspoon of yeast nutrient that was blended into water, into the boil in the last 10 minutes. I also did an air pump treatment for about 45 minutes while I was cleaning and letting the wort get to 66.

    I had created a starter of us-05 that had previously been harvested using the brulosophy method, according to dad's was sized appropriately for 1.135. I had the starter in the fermentation chamber @ 66 ready to go.

    Here is a rough timeline:
    10/9/2017 ~ 9:00 pm pitched yeast
    10/10 6:30 am : nothing in the airlock :slight_frown:
    10/10 6:30 pm - Bubbling like crazy :slight_smile:
    10/12 6:30am - still bubbling, a bit slower, raising to 67'
    10/13 6:30am - still bubbling, a bit slower, raising to 68'
    10/14 6:30am - still bubbling, a bit slower, raising to 69'
    10/14 6:30pm - I pulled a sample @ 1.076, picked up WLP090, which is what I wanted in the first place, but they didnt have any, made a starter based on 1.076
    10/17 6:30 pm - still no airlock activity pitched starter, let the wort drop to 66 again before pitching

    So i kept waiting hoping that the activity would pickup, I tried to swirl the wort a few times but didn't have much impact.

    The sample I took was decent but pretty sweet. At this point what is my best option, I dont want to ruin it trying to improve it. I plan to add oak cubes in the next couple of days, was wondering if i should try to add some boiled water with some kind of sugar? Therefore cutting the sweetness, and give the yeast something to eat to boost ABV?

    Thank you in advance!
     
    Lance_Beardsworth likes this.
  2. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You can do a quick fermentability test by taking off a quart of beer and adding a sachet of us05 to the beer. By extremely over pitching into such a small amount of beer you will be force fermenting the beer. If you get a drop in gravity you know it's fermentable. If there is no change you are at terminal gravity. @DrewBeechum explains it in his podcast.
    on another note, are you sure your hydrometer is accurate?
     
    Bryan12345 and DrewBeechum like this.
  3. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Crusader (433) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    I just did a bcbs clone attempt that was just put in a barrel. I added sugar 5 days after fermentation started per recommendation by pro Brewers for high Abv beers and ended up getting 1.135 down to 1.034. Might be worth a shot to see if it can jump start the yeast to get some more fermentation going but I would think the starter would have already got something going. There's got to be plenty of fermentables in there at the gravity.
     
  4. Jeremy80

    Jeremy80 Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2017 Illinois

    Thanks guys. I checked the hydrometer with water, and it was dead on 1. I pulled the sample, and today's reading was 1.062, so there has been some activity, but not quite what I was hoping for. The only packet of dried yeast i had was a danstar belle saison, so i pitched that. I will report back further progress.

    @Eggman20 - what king of sugar?
     
  5. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Crusader (433) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    Just regular cane sugar. I've done Belgian candi before as well. Boil 2 cups of water add the sugar and boil for ten minutes then add to the wort
     
  6. Jeremy80

    Jeremy80 Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2017 Illinois

    @SFACRKnight no change in gravity as of yet. How did I end up with so much unfermentable sugar?

    Just not sure what to do now.
     
  7. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Let's see a recipe and a run down of the brewday. Using a lot of extract can cause a higher than expected fg as can high mash temps.
     
  8. Jeremy80

    Jeremy80 Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2017 Illinois

    I have the grain bill in the origal post. I didn’t use any extract. I used a double mash with 50% of the grain bill @152 for 60 mind. to manage all that grain and boiled down total volume. I hit my “pre-boil” target after boiling down the volume. After the final 90 minute boil I over shot the target FG.
     
  9. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,218) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If you started at 1.153 and are currently at 1.062, you are already at almost 12% abv. Although it may be below max tolerances, that's a pretty tough environment to pitch new yeast into. There is likely not much oxygen left in there either. Personally, I'd start with some yeast energizer and nutrient and bringing the temperature up to the low 70s or even 75 to see if that helps. I don't think you have to worry too much about overly fruity esters or fusel oils at this point. Adding sugar at this point will probably only add to your problem at this point since that is normally done while the yeast are active.
     
    Bryan12345, SFACRKnight and Eggman20 like this.
  10. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Man, I would say if you can't force ferment a quart with a sachet of saison yeast you're probably done.
     
    MrOH likes this.
  11. Jeremy80

    Jeremy80 Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2017 Illinois

    Hey guys I appreciate the feed back, one other thing I noticed when taking the last sample from the fermenter, there seemed to be a lot of co2 absorbed / released in the beer, I am not sure if this is because of the Higher gravity, but is it possible that there is a higher level of co2 stuck in the wort might contribute to a higher gravity reading.
     
  12. Jeremy80

    Jeremy80 Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2017 Illinois

    Disregard as I forgot the last reading with the extra yeast that had been shaken multiple times and I am sure was de-gassed.
     
  13. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    It's not that your sugars are necessarily "unfermentable". The more probable reason is the conditions have become too harsh for the yeast (high alcohol and low oxygen). It's going to be tough to restart this, sorry man, sounds like you put a lot of time into it.
    Next time make sure you pitch enough yeast (sounds like you might have under pitched) and aerate with pure oxygen (sounds you used aome sort of air pump).
    Also, (not that this matters now) there is no way you had 10.5 gal of 1.063 wort and boiled down to 5 gal of 1.153. You would of had to of started more around 1.073. Like I said, doesn't matter now.
     
    PapaGoose03 likes this.
  14. Jeremy80

    Jeremy80 Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2017 Illinois

    Good news the mini yeast bomb moved 10 pts to ~ 1.05, so off to yeast nutrient and energizer I go. @Supergenious - What I did was make two recipes in beersmith, so the 50% recipe target was a per-boil volume of 6.46 gals @ 1.63, so the total volume was higher, ~ 13 gallons @ 1.063. I might had had a little more volume due to extra sparge volume. It got pretty crazy boiling 3 pots at the same time, and trying to condense pots that were boiling at the same length and starting new boils.

    Thanks all again for the help!
     
  15. Jeremy80

    Jeremy80 Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2017 Illinois

    I transferred to a secondary yesterday. The gravity was still ~1.05, I kept a liter of slurry, which I covered with foil. Within a few minutes it was bubbling, which inspired me to give this one more shot. I did also listen to the experimental brewing podcast and their recommendation to use a yeast cake. I didnt have anything else brewing, so I went with a 4 liter starter. I pitched the 1 liter slurry and another ~ 300 billions “new” cells from my yeast overbuilding. Now it’s got a nice layer of form, I am wondering if I should pitch it now or when it settles. I just re-read the part in “how to” where it says the starter wort should be like the pitch wort, though I never worried about this before, but in this case my wort has high ABVs already. Just looking for a consensus. On a side note what do you guys think about stir plates verese SNS?
     
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