Boycotting 10 Barrel & Elysian

I'm on BeerAdvocate, not CraftBeerAdvocate or IndependentBeerAdvocate. The founders of this site seem to steer this ship pretty wide of excluding the macros, regardless of what the vast majority of its members believe. As for AB's business practices, the market continues to speak and they continue to lose—as indicated by anecdotes posted in this very thread. I'm really not too worried about the impact they are having.

So judge me all you want, feel as righteous as you want. The only people I am judging are the people who believe they are in a position to judge me or others, when they also support unethical business practices, erode workers' rights, or harm the environment whether they intend to or not. I don't care if you shop at QFC or eat Chick-fil-A or drink Elysian beer, or buy produce picked by undocumented workers, or sleep in hotel rooms cleaned by them, or buy farmed salmon (although that would be fucking stupid) or use weed killer on your lawn, or any number of about an infinite number of choices people make every day that have an impact on the world around them. Your decisions are your right and I respect that. Everyone needs to apply their own personal values to their own personal choices and then back off.

We can use these and other forums to educate others about why they might not want to do those things, but if you think you have a right to tell other people what they should or should not do, then you might be having delusions of grandeur.

I'm no Christian, but Jesus got it right when he said let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

 

I think one of the issues I see is scaling up Elysian and 10 Barrel beers with very robust ingredient lists to national levels. Hop shortage is a very real thing; having multiple beers in a portfolio that necessitate larger hop bills coupled with the ability snatch hop contracts with lower bids ultimately disables craft breweries from progressing creatively. The bottleneck with craft beer is always at the ingredient list. When a large company like AB-Inbev continues to grow their demand for specialty ingredients, they will have the opportunity to really constrain the little guy.

Just another reason to stop supporting AB-Inbev.

I suspect we will see more breweries take notes from Rogue, Sierra Nevada, and Agrarian and manage their own hop and barley farms.

 

This is a real concern, but I think it could be resolved somewhat by smaller breweries joining forces. Not necessarily acquiring each other outright, although that will happen too (see Green Flash/Alpine), but finding creative ways to collectively ensure their share of the ingredients they need. Remember, macros have the market share they do because they produce and sell a very cheap product. Hops and malt cost them the same (or similar) to what they cost the smaller breweries.

 

I agree with you to a fairly large extent, but your above statement appears to suggest that people make decisions in a vacuum. I think people get riled up not because they want to assert control over what decisions people make, but because ultimately some decisions that people make affect them.

I think we can mostly agree that it's ok to tell someone off when they are directly affecting your life with a decision - I think the logic still applies when they are indirectly affecting your life with a decision. The latter situation just takes a much larger conversation and great deftness.

In the end all you can do is say your piece, explain thoroughly, and then wait for a response. If no response comes, then I think you should let the issue lie, knowing you tried.

 

AB already owns a hop farm in Idaho, but will they start buying more hop farms in Washington and Oregon. That is a big worry for the local breweries.

 

This was the post of the thread.

 

And I agree with what you've said. The issue I have is with people who provide me with information about why I should or should not support a certain business, buy a certain product, take a certain action, worship a certain god, vote for a certain candidate, what have you—and then when I don't respond in the way they want or expect me to, they feel righteous and justified in judging me. Maybe they just failed to make a persuasive argument, but somehow that idea never seems to occur to them.

 

OK, i'll just re-post this from Texwild then. Is this persuasive enough for you?

Dismantra,

Just for the record: NEVER.

Because Beer Matters, Bro.

Switzer,

AB-InBev uses their clout to limit craft beer options at every available venue, from stadiums to stores to bars. Craft brewers are constantly fighting them across this country for the right to self distribute (like they do), sell pints in tasting rooms (like they do), hell, even exist as a licensed operation (the fuckers have fought in every state against craft brewing even being legal). So, this is part of the picture. When they find one of us that will sell out, they use the legitimacy of that brewery's business to undermine the rest of us by selling the brand (now it is a brand, NOT a craft brewery) at ridiculous prices (witness Goose Island kegs of IPA FOR $65) and pushing us out of major venues (they control Safeway beer placement and limit craft options, cans, etc) like stadiums.

So, this is a brief summary but indicative of what I was attempting to communicate. AB-InBev seeks to destroy craft beer to retain market share. With shrinking share for their own beer in the US, they are trying to buy craft breweries as a weapon against the enemy. Us.

Fremont is a part of our craft beer community. We will NEVER sell out.

Because Beer Matters.

 

Not shure if anything did change @ 10 Barrel in Bend, but here was packed house on Monday and Tuesday for St.Patricks day. I was told that new Pearl IPA is tasty.

 

Yes, it's persuasive. And I consider myself one of Fremont's biggest supporters. That said, this is still one business owner complaining about another business using unfair advantage. And there are literally thousands of greater injustices in the world that I care about more and would make more of an effort to change if I only knew how. That doesn't make me a bad person or even a bad beer advocate.

 

Nobody is saying its one of the great injustices of the world, but this is a beer forum, and the 'effort to change' requires virtually no effort at all.

 

Fair enough, I'll give it more thought. I do think that every brewery that exists, whether a local nanobrewery or a multinational macrobrewery, does everything within its power to make sure its tap handles, kegs, bottles and cans are everywhere they can be, even (and in fact, by necessity) at the expense of other breweries. A stadium is only going to carry so many beers after all. Some breweries are more underhanded than others, some are more influential than others, but at the end of the day it's still business and everyone is doing what they can do/have to to survive. Fremont is competing with AB Inbev, and Georgetown, and Reuben's, and Holy Mountain even if we don't like to talk about that, and even if this competition among local craft breweries often seems to be more of a friendly rivalry (I have said that a rising tide lifts all boats after all). So taking this all back to what started this discussion yesterday, drinking what tastes good to you is about as sound a practice as any to make sure the best breweries that make the best beers continue to thrive and prosper.

 

Draheim,

While I don't disagree with you at all AND I know you have been supporting us through every experiment, release, new beer, etc., I want to clarify that I wasn't complaining. I answered a question with facts. No complaints, no whining, no cries of "unfair", rather a direct answer to a direct question.

 

Poor word choice on my part. And I wouldn't blame you if you were complaining, so I didn't mean that in a negative way. Shitty unethical business practices deserve complaints, if not lawsuits if there are grounds for them.

 

@Reidrover I did not personally go to the brewery, but thank you. Also, all of you that are in Portland, are welcome to join us today after work at Deschutes for some pints!

Cheers and all the best!

 

That's great! Yeah all the people going to 10 barrel and Eylisian must not love craft beer. I only say that because this is the NW. It's not across the country, where, let's be honest there isn't the "local" pride thing. Sure I know many that have gone to 10 Barrel and sure they are great people, but WTF? Why support them now, I mean like there isn't enough great beer in portland? It's not like all of craft beer has sold out, so there are choices. InBeV will continue to buy up local places until people stop going to these places, and sure the masses will go so maybe this is all in vein. All I know is that supporting these places is something I will not do. If inBev wants to buy stuff up in the east coast or midwest then go ahead, but leave the NW alone. In all honesty they should stay the hell out of craft beer and brew their crap beer.

 

Draheim.
True. We choose to focus on making beer we can be proud of and offering them to an amazing audience of enthusiastic, experimental people who appreciate a free market of choices. Business is business and it's not a playground. Luckily, we have a great community and it sustains great brewers and many other great businesses.

 

Will Fremont participate in this years Elysian Pumpkin Fest? Assuming it's put on by AB-InBev.