Braggot Yeast Question

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by epk, Dec 14, 2017.

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  1. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Hey folks, I've decided to give my first braggot a try in the near future, maybe after the holidays. My wife and I really like Flying Fish's Blueberry Braggot which according to their website, has a Belgian base beer (Golden Strong/Tripel, I assume). A quick email to them also confirmed that they actually add the honey at 60 mins and use some orange and lemon peel for the citrus the description notes. Might not actually add any blueberries the first go at it.

    As for yeast, they note a Belgian strain, finished with Champagne yeast. I was actually planning on adding the honey either at flameout or a few days into primary. I figured Trappist High Gravity would get much of the work done (I do want to push it past that strain's tolerance), and I can build a big starter to match the base beer OG, but wasn't sure how to calculate how much Champagne yeast (wyeast 4021?) I need to finish it up.

    Thoughts? Comments on braggot brewing in general also welcome.

    For reference, the fermentables are looking something like this for 5.5 gallons:

    15 lbs Pils
    1 lb Aromatic
    8 oz. Biscuit
    2 lbs. Turbinado Sugar
    4 lbs. Honey

    1.120 OG (1.091 before honey)
     
  2. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    A different approach is to make a mead and make a beer and blend them to your liking. It gives you some flexibility that the single batch approach lacks.
     
  3. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    I've brewed dozens and won a bunch of medals with them, but take my advice with a grain of salt, as I've never had the beer that you've mentioned.

    This is not going to get you into braggot territory. You need more honey. You don't have to go 50/50, but at least get to 60/40.

    Personally, for your first attempt at the style, I'd recommend using all base malt and picking a more characterful honey. If you can get your hands on some dark local wildflower honey or knotweed honey, that might be a good idea.

    Lots of people use wine strains or neutral ale strains, like Chico, but if you're looking for some Belgian influence, just use WLP099 - Super High Gravity.

    I wouldn't add the honey at flame out, as that's a LOT of sugar for your yeast to get used to. To avoid osmotic shock, add the honey directly to your fermenter at high krausen. That way your yeast will be able to handle the big sugar addition better.
     
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  4. Beerswimmer

    Beerswimmer Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2013 Texas

    I'm fermenting a braggot right now with WLP 545 with good results so far. SG 1.14 and has 10lbs of honey. Should finish nearly dry.
     
  5. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Care to post a recipe and technique?
     
  6. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Thanks for the replies guys.

    Interesting, just from some online research, the actual definiation of Braggot seemed a little loose and that you could basically add anywhere from 10% to 50% and still call it such. But I like your advice and will try to get closer to a 60/40 split.

    Of course, I'm not totally sure how braggot-y Flying Fishes example actually is without trying some more commericals examples. I could be tasting more Beglain than anything else. They did tell me they use only base malt as you also suggested.

    Makes sense. I found it odd that they told me they added the honey at 60 mins - I thought for sure that would boil off any of the honey character. I was leaning towards adding during active fermentation, so your advice confirms that.

    I suppose Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey Style Ale II is the closest equivilant here, but it does note a lower tolerance. I'll look into the White Labs strain (and the one EvenMoreJesus noted), if I can forgo the Champagne Yeast all together and still get where I need to go, so be it. I can't imagine it is adding anything, at that point.
     
    MrOH likes this.
  7. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Followup question - would you mash on the low side to promote a drier finished product or is that overkill with the amount of dryness that honey brings to the table? Typically with my tripels I'd be mashing around 149.
     
  8. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    You can if you want, but "normal" mash temperatures (148F-160F) aren't going to give you that much of a difference in fermentability.
     
  9. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Not getting into that debate. In the end it's about preception and taste, and you are probably right, a lot of people will not preceive a major difference when you talking up or down five degrees.

    Let me rephrase my question - is the end goal of a typical braggot dryness?
     
  10. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    While not scientific, brulosophy had a great write up on mash temps.
     
  11. Beerswimmer

    Beerswimmer Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2013 Texas

    Not to hijack, but there's not too much info about brewing braggots out there.

    This was a clean out the brew room brew. I had all the ingredients sitting around already. The honey was something I bought on sale and always wanted to use in a braggot, even though this is my first time ever making one. I used 545(one of the few White Labs yeasts I use) because it always finishes low. I wanted to use equal amounts of grains and honey, before I though enough about it to realise I should have just used gravity points! It's doing great, and smelling great, and the sample I tastes was great. It'll be done and ready for the Superbowl, hopefully.

    2 days before brewday- make a big starter

    7lbs pale 2-row
    1lb wheat DME
    2lbs D-240
    10lbs raw, unfiltered wildflower honey
    0.5oz old Centennial hops

    Brewday- mash grains in @155F for 1 hour, total volume going to kettle was 5.5g.

    Add DME and hops to kettle, boil for 10 mins. Just long enough to get the hot break to go away and to sanitize the wort. Cool to 80F(about as cold as I can chill in my location) and pitch starter. Place into guest bathroom bathtub, 68F ambient.

    2 days later add 2lbs D-240
    2 days later add 4lbs honey
    2 days later add 4lbs honey
    2 days later gravity sample was 1.01, added last 2lbs honey.

    So far, so good.
     
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  12. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    No there certainly isn't. Thanks for posting!
     
  13. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Thanks, Beerswimmer. Totally not hijacking - any info on braggots is welcome.

    I like the idea of a short boil. That didn't even cross my mind, but makes total sense. I was going to use horizon hops (per Flying Fish's recipe) and it looks like you can still get a wee bit of bitterness out of them at just 15 minutes.

    What was the OG?
     
  14. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Nevermind, I see it up further. 1.14
     
  15. Beerswimmer

    Beerswimmer Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2013 Texas

    I'm not sure. I've never had a commercial braggot. I have had a lot of mead though. I for sure like the dry ones a lot more. The sweet ones can be cloying. If there was a braggot out there that finished around 1.02, I'd probably not like it. I can't stand the big barleywines and stouts that finish high. Di-uh-beetus!
     
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  16. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    There aren't a lot out there. Especially in the true sense of the word, as some beers that are labeled "braggot" only get a small percentage of their fermentables from honey.

    1.020 isn't that high at all, IMO.
     
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  17. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Wait, did you actually mean 1.114 (as opposed to 1.140)?
     
  18. Beerswimmer

    Beerswimmer Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2013 Texas

    @epk 1.144 actually.
     
  19. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Wow, that is a big boy indeed.
     
  20. Beerswimmer

    Beerswimmer Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2013 Texas

    Just checked it, 1.008. Going to give it another week and then hopefully get it in bottles by the New Year.
     
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