I have heard that Wyeast 5112 and WLP650 are two different strains of Brett brux. If so, does anyone know for sure which one (if either) was sourced from Orval? TIA! p.s. - I know that White Labs' description says "A historic brewery in Belgium uses this yeast in secondary fermentation and bottling to produce the signature flavor of its beer." They're pretty obviously talking about Orval there, but I'm not going to automatically assume that by "this yeast" they don't mean "this species" generically. ETA: I just read that 5112 was isolated from "brewery cultures in the Brussels region." Orval is about as far from Brussels as you can get and still be in Belgium, so that would seem to make 5112 an unlikely candidate.
From the milkthefunk website: “Bruxellensis Dekkera bruxellensis Brettanomyces bruxellensis Wyeast 5112 "sweaty horse blanket" Not the same as WL's Brux. Cell count: 7.5 x 108 cells/mL [218].” And: “Bruxellensis Dekkera bruxellensis Brettanomyces bruxellensis WLP650 Barnyard. Prominent Leathery aroma and flavor. Low levels of supporting tropical fruit in the aroma and flavor. [212] Not the same as WY's Brux. Approx. 500 million cells per mL; homebrew vials are approx. 17.5 billion cells at 35 mL [213].” http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Brettanomyces So they list the same species name for WY5112 and WLP650 but in the Source Note section they state that are not the same. Quite confusing unless the difference is simply a cell count issue? Does Michael Tonsmiere (@OldSock) still participate on BA? Cheers!
Thanks for the link. They could quite possibly be the same species without being the same strain. I'd be pretty surprised if by "not the same" they meant a different cell count.
In another homebrewing forum Michael Tonsmiere opined on WY5112 and WLP650: “They seem close enough in my experience.” https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/wyeast-5112-vs-wlp-650-brett-b-yeasts.203980/ Cheers!
Not really answering your question, but I would just ferment with Orval dregs. The mixed fermentation will get you there faster than a 2 stage, and there is no question about the source.
This also does not answer your question but if you are going for orval then build up some dregs and use that culture as the primary fermenter. I did that once and I actually took good notes! Looks like I was shooting for OG55 but hit OG60, I checked the gravity every couple days to document the drop in gravity. looks like it took about 3 weeks to get to FG10. Fermented at 60F for a week then let it climb by itself in the swamp cooler where it got to 67 by day 11. Moved it to room temp at 67-72 for the duration. Final note was to mash lower to get better attenuation, but no mash temp recorded. OK maybe the notes were not as good as I thought. Did this March 2010 damn I am getting old. Hope this helps.
I did assume that the Orval dregs would be stepped up before pitching... I did pretty much exactly what NiceFly did at about the same time and it turned out very well. Not really an Orval clone because I went very light on the crystal, but very close. And it was ready to drink, bottle conditioned, in about 3 months. I subsequently used the same yeast mix to make several sourish fruit beers that were very good. Need to do this again!
