First of all, apologies if a thread already exists, I have searched but come up empty. I was planning on making a Dunkelweizen in the next week or so, but had a sudden thought wondering if anyone has madea weizen variant with added Brett (co-pitch?secondary?). I guess my main interest would be to know/see how/if Brett converts the various phenols etc that the Weizen yeast put out. Obviously this depends on the strain of Brett, but i'm intruiged as to why it hasn't been explored further (or maybe it has and fails miserably?).
Jester King doing this right now with Live Oak's Hefe. I thought about this a few times over the past year or so but haven't experimrnted yet. I say go for it. In theory it should be a Brett bomb if you pitch the weizen strain first then a healthy pitch of Brett in secondary.
I have currently a part of my recent Dunkelweizen "Banane, Oida" fermenting with Brettanomyces Bruxellensis (Wyeast 5112) in secondary. It sits there since December without much visible activity in the first 2 months. In January I took a sample and the dominant banana with a clove undertone had pretty much given way to mild pineapple from the pitched Brett yeast. Last week a thin pellicle has formed and I am seeing some gentle pressure build up in the water lock. I do not want to disturb it right now, but will let you know how it is developing, if you are interested.
WezenBam from Jolly Pumpkin is a good beer. I had a Wezen that got infected with something (had a pellicle in under one week) that wasn't too bad.
Unfortunately it's not easy for me to get a lot of beers that people talk about here, although that being said, I haven't specifically looked out for them at the local stores yet. Can you guys give any more information on how you think the Brett interacted with the Weizen produced phenols? @safaricook - You said that the Banana and Clove had given way, did you mean that they were still present but subtle, or gone alltogether?
According to @OldSock the clove will be converted to barnyard, maybe some pepper. It could be turned to smoke/burnt rubber, but you run that risk using Brett. It will also reshape the banana esters too, but that can shift with each strain.
I too was thinking of the experiment that appeared fairly recently on the Mad Fermentationist blog. If brewing a Weizen that is heavy on the clove, I think the hypothesis would be that the Brett will funkify more.
Since the banana and clove esters fade fast under normal circumstances I would imagine it would be hard to capture them with the Brett influence together
They shouldn't fade very fast. No faster than in a Belgian. I've brewed Hefeweisse that drank well a year later. Sure, it wasn't what it was fresh, and had some oxidation, was super clear, but the esters and phenols don't fade in beer.
Brett is going to regulate the oxidation and slow the deterioration of the beer although it's never been my experience that the clove notes drop off significantly in a weizen, just the banana and fresh wheat character. With a very clovey weizen I would be concerned that you will get too much funk for many people's preferences and possibly consider brewing a fruiter sour/brett beer to have on hand to blend if necessary.
Hmm ok, thanks everyone. If/When I go ahead with it, I'll make sure not to go overboard with the clove aspect. Any ideas on how the Banana changes?
According to my senses, the banana is providing the background fruitiness currently in my beer whereas brett fruitiness is centerstage. I have to smell beyond the brett in order to find the banana again. In a way this seems to work quite well. My Dunkelweizen was never too strong on the clove though they are present in the regular beer and there is a hint in the current brett version.
Ah ok, interesting. That does sound like it would work well. I actually quite like the Banana aspect of Weizens, sometimes moreso than the clove. I'll probably split the batch anyway, and innoculate 1/2 with Brett and leave 1/2 clean. Next phase would be to work out when to pitch the Brett. It's kinda daunting and exciting at the same time, there's just so little easily available (and easily understandable) information on Brett specifics compared to Sacc.
There is a new-ish Vermont brewery called Four Quarters Brewing that makes a Brett hefeweizen with bananas and Citra hops called Funky Monkey. They actually just brewed it this past week. The owner/brewer Brian was a long-time homebrewer and I'm sure he would answer any questions you have. Here is the link to the website: http://www.fourquartersbrewing.com/ and owner email: [email protected] Good luck!
