Brett Saison

Just FYI...you may already know this, but WLP644 is not a Brett strain. But it does act somewhat like Brett.

 

WLP644 is not Brettanomyces. For many years it was thought to be Brett, but a few years ago it was discovered to be a wild Saccharomyces strain. (I see VikeMan has already covered this point.)

It is not absolutely necessary to move your beer to secondary. An example of a beer with Brettanomyces in which the entire fermentation is conducted in the primary fermenter is lambic (and of course gueuze, which is a blend of lambics). The reason to move your beer to secondary is that Brettanomyces will consume some of the autolysis byproducts and can create fairly funky flavors (this is one reason gueuze is such a complex style). If that's what you want, fine, if not, you should consider racking to secondary. That said, I recently brewed a mixed fermentation sour beer with Brettanomyces, and even though I never bothered to rack to secondary, the beer was not overly funky. It was a fairly clean sour. For what it's worth, the usual concern with moving to secondary (oxygen exposure) is somewhat ameliorated in this case because the Brettanomyces will continue to scavenge oxygen.

When Brettanomyces is used as a secondary fermenter, its cell count is not very important. As a result, you should be fine pitching only a portion of the vial, but pitching the whole vial should be fine too.

I've never brewed a saison with Brett and I'm not sure how important it is to choose a relatively low-attenuating saison strain. [Edited to add... on reflection, I guess I did brew a Brett saison. But it was from a blend and I don't even know what the saison yeast was. In any case I only did it once and I don't have any useful advice based on the experience.] I would definitely mash hot. If you are concerned about the Brett having food to work with, perhaps consider pitching it earlier than you otherwise might. You could even co-pitch it with your primary fermenter, although in that case I would not pitch the whole vial.

[Edited 2nd time to add: I understand you are in Ireland, but is there any way you can get your hands on Yeast Bay products? This one or this one might be of interest to you.]

[Edited 3rd time to add: Here's an award-winning recipe that used the first Yeast Bay product I linked to above, which may give you some ideas.]

 

I have brewed with Brett a few times but I only have experience with a co-pitch primary: the Bastogne Ale yeast strain and Brett Brux. Those batches completed primary fermentation in a couple of weeks and those beers were funky at ‘day 1’ of beer consumption.

“Is it absolutely necessary to move to secondary with Brett or can it be added straight to primary after a few weeks? I've read that it will take a number of months before the beer really takes on the Brett character and I'm just conscious of autolysis.”

My advice is that if you intend to give the Brett an extended time then conduct a secondary.

“I'm guessing that for the primary yeast strain you wouldn't want to go with something with super high attenuation so as to leave some sugars for the Brett?”

Yeah, it probably would be ‘better’ to use a less attenuative yeast strain if are adding Brett. Do not use Wyeast 3711 since that strain ‘eats’ everything. Maybe Wyeast 3726 would be a better choice?

I have read that if you desire a beer with notable funk then you want a POF+ (Phenolic Off Flavor) yeast strain. Apparently the Brett converts the phenols to compounds that provide funky flavors?

“This is going to be a 1 gallon batch. Can I pitch the whole vial straight in or does any consideration need to be given to the amount I add relative to this small batch?”

It seems to me that pitching a whole packaged of liquid yeast in 1 gallon is a significant overpitch. If you want your beer at the completion of primary to be low in compounds like esters than I guess pitch the whole thing? Personally I would pitch less than a whole package of liquid yeast since I like ‘Belgiany’ flavors (e.g., esters).

Any thoughts about expanding beyond 1 gallon batches? I know you made mention of living in an apartment but maybe brewing 3 gallon batches would be OK with you?

Cheers!

 

Well, perhaps that will depend on the specific product and beer conditions?

Below is some advice that Greg Doss (formerly of Wyeast) provides:

“For secondary fermentation a small amount of Brett is fine, but the more you pitch the faster you’ll get results because growth is very slow in such a stressful environment (alcoholic, low pH, no simple sugars, etc…).”

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2008/06/all-about-brettanomyces.html

Cheers!

 

I've brewed a bretty saison with the brett (amalgamation blend, IIRC) being pitched after a primary fermentation with Belle Saison, and it came out with a nice fruity brett character. So while there are probably reasons to choose a more or less attenuative sacch strain, high attenuation in primary can definitely work.

 

Pitched brett into the secondary. I think I bottled after about three months of secondary, but it took at least another three for the flavour to really mature, so it would probably have been easier to have just kept it in the carboy for six months.

YMMV massively with all of this, though - brettanomyces are famously unpredictable little things.

 

The Averagely Perfect Saison is a good place to start. I’ve made it before. It is a very tasty Brett Saison. Here is a link to the recipe: https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...-perfect-saison-pellet-hop-version-ag.275601/

 

Highly recommend the Brett isolates from the Yeast Bay, especially tyb-184 and tyb-207.

Tyb-184 will work incredibly fast. I use it all the time.

I most often will primary with Wyeast 3522 and after two weeks move to a secondary vessel and toss in the Brett. You can get the additional attenuation and great flavor development in about a month. It will usually take something that’s stopped between 1.010-1.012 down to around 1.004 which is generally where it stops.

Bottle condition after that.

207 works a little slower but is great as well.

 

I have used stepped up Orval dregs for a saison before, that might be easier than trying to find a commercial version for the brett.

 

I did a rye saison that went down to 1.003 with 3711, then used an eyedropper to add a couple drops of Wyeast Brett B to each bottle at bottling. A year later, the Brett character was amazing.

 

Depends on your equipment really and how quickly the brett character you want.

Co-pitch w/ sacch strain:
- Produces a more potent brett character quicker
- Cross contamination (if you are worried about that)

Pitch after primary
- Takes more time to produce brett character
- Can use secondary vessel that doesn't cross contaminate primary vessel

Whatever you choose to do, make sure your gravity is stable before bottling. If you are doing a 1 gallon batch that will be tough to do. So, I would personally co-pitch and let sit for 6-8 weeks before bottling. After 6-8 weeks, there should be no residual, unfermented sugars that would otherwise cause overcarbonation in the bottle.

 

My best non-sour Brett beer was the old ale I brewed with a low attenuating strain (the Lallemand ESB strain) and Brett c in secondary. The primary went from about 1.08 to 1.025, the secondary took it down to about 1.010. 1 month in primary, ~4 months in secondary, drinking bottles after 6 months, and proudly sharing bottles at 10 months. There was a funky fruitness to this beer.

I have tried Brett saisons two ways, using American Farmhouse Blend WLP 670 (2x), and using the Averagely Perfect recipe. The 670 sacch strain is known to be a diastaticus variant (possibly 3711?); maybe it outcompetes Brett prevents a lot of Brett character from developing (see @JackHorzempa 's comment on highly attenuating strains). In any event, I was not impressed. The AP recipe used 3724, a strain that I like. I still don't remember getting a lot of Brett character in that beer. Maybe I should have aged it longer.

My first homebrewed Brett beer utilized stepped up Orval dregs pitched into secondary of a Belgian pale ale fermented with the WYeast Ardennes strain. I intended this as an Orval clone, back when the WLP Bastogne strain had more limited availability. The step up from dregs to about a 1 liter starter sized pitch was done over about 2 weeks and include 3 or 4 stages. I recall the starter wort seemed pretty funky and the beer took on that character almost immediately. I do not recall how long it stayed in secondary, but I would guess less than 1 month. This was a good beer. I suspect stepping up dregs is difficult to do with consistency, as I think Orval dregs contain both Sacch and Brett, and the ratio of viable cells probably varies from bottle to bottle depending on age and handling.

 

Once you ferment with Brett or other wild strains should you isolate those fermenters and use them only for those specific types of beers even after cleaning and sanitizing?

 

A lot of people take that approach. It's probably not strictly necessary if you clean and sanitize properly, but it only takes a few Brett cells to make a big impact on the characteristics of a beer, so you'd have to be very confident in your practices for it to be worth it not to segregate. Buckets are cheap.

That said, I take a different view for Lacto. The Lacto I use is so hop-sensitive that I don't view it as a threat, and I treat my goses and Berliners the same way I would a clean beer (unless I add Brett).

 

I have brewed with Brett multiple times and I have reused that primary fermementer afterwards with no issues. Needless to say but YMMV.

Cheers!

 

I often dose Saisons with Brett C at bottling. Of course, these beers have fermented all the way down to 1.003 or below at that point. Brett character usually shows up around month 2.