Brett/Sour critique and a question

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by atomeyes, Jun 28, 2012.

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  1. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    I'm going to brew me a sour.

    13 lbs 2-row malt
    1 lb wheat malt
    0.5 oz williamette 90 min
    0.5 williamette 30 min
    0.5 oz saaz flameout

    5 gallon final volume.

    will use WLP510 Bastogne as primary for 3 weeks at 68 F, then transfer to a secondary that has a brett cake AND I'll add WLP655 White Labs Belgian Sour Mix. Let it sit for a year and enjoy.

    I was going to mash at around 154 F. Wondering if i can do a 60 min strike at 154 and then sparge at 165-168 F for 15-30 min. Or do i need to stick to the traditional way of doing sours?

    And any thoughts about the recipe or mash advice?
     
    #1 atomeyes, Jun 28, 2012
  2. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    Whst do you want the beer to taste like?
     
    #2 Homebrew42, Jun 28, 2012
  3. jthahn

    jthahn Initiate (0) Jun 1, 2009 Indiana

    I've got a few thoughts

    Recipe
    1) Whats your target gravity? looks like its going to be a pretty strong beer unless your efficiency is pretty low. Its your beer, but i would be looking for 5-7% abv...keep in mind how low this will probably ferment down and you could end up with a pretty boozy beer.
    2) IBUs. Keep the IBUs low for these beers. I believe my last sour was brewed with 0.5oz. of 18 month old Saaz that started life around 2.5% AA.

    Mash
    you mention sticking to the "traditional method"...are you talking about using a turbid mash? If so then you'll have to use a wheat malt that has been milled and then the mash schedule changes tremendously. Its time consuming but it isn't terribly difficult.

    If you're sticking with the mash listed above...don't be afraid to sparge out at a higher than normal temperature (185-200). pulling out what would normally not be fermentable will just take a longer time. and that can be a good thing. I've got a turbid mashed lambic going right now, it should take longer to ferment because of the mash/raw wheat. same basic idea

    Fermentation
    Why two yeasts? The WLP655 has a sacch. strain in it, so i'm not entirely sure what you would accomplish with the WLP510, other than eat up sugars that the sour mix could have gone at. I'd drop the WLP510 and just use the WLP655.
     
    #3 jthahn, Jun 28, 2012
  4. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    thanks for the reply. my quick answers:

    1. no clue. i'm at work and i needed to place my order before i went home. going drinking tonight and then picking the grains up tomorrow. :slight_smile: so I'd like to have this closer to 6%. just didn't have the ability to calculate OG

    2. same for IBUs. i'll keep it around 20, i think

    Mash: yep. turbid mash = traditional method = doughing in.

    just curious as to why I'd sparge at a higher temp? Thought that was a no-no. what does it accomplish?

    Fermentations: why 2 yeasts? the simple answer is that i was trying to get pedio, lacto and a sacc separate. i had no idea that the White labs yeast had sacc in it. so i guess i can just do a single fermentation and not transfer anything. yes!

     
    #4 atomeyes, Jun 28, 2012
  5. sergeantstogie

    sergeantstogie Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2010 Washington

    Why rush into brewing a beer that's going to take months to be ready?
     
    #5 sergeantstogie, Jun 28, 2012
  6. Hands22

    Hands22 Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2011 Florida

    Since this will be sitting for a year, I'd drop the 30 min and flame-out hops. Just do a 90 min bittering addition to get your IBUs and then dry hop to taste before bottling.
     
    #6 Hands22, Jun 28, 2012
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  7. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 California

    I would add the sour mix right away. Give it a chance to fight for the left over sugars against the brett cake.
     
    #7 nanobrew, Jun 29, 2012
  8. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    My Flanders Red smells amazing after only 3 months. I pitched Roeselare from the beginning to get moar sourness on its first inoculation once I get to the six month mark, I intend to inoculate another poor, innocent wort on the same cake to accomplish an even more of a sour profile.
     
    #8 jmich24, Jun 29, 2012
  9. jthahn

    jthahn Initiate (0) Jun 1, 2009 Indiana

    if youre doing a turbid mash then drop the wheat and use raw wheat instead. what youre trying to do is provide sugars that the yeasts will eat on for a long time, which is what raw wheat will provide. also, a turbid mash involved numerous temperature steps...my last one was something like 115,122,135,147,153,160, mash out...i can dm you the specifics. the short of it is ignore what i said about higher sparge temps if youre using a turbid mash. the reason its not as big a deal with these beers is that the yeasts/bugs will eventually break down those typically unfermentable sugars. a turbid mash accomplishes the same thing, using raw wheat we can get some sugars in the mix that will take months to break down.
    also, youll end up ovecollecting wort and boiling down...so youre efficiency will be very high.
    my last turbid mash was about a 4 hour boil.
     
    #9 jthahn, Jun 29, 2012
  10. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    not rushing into brewing it. i wanted a critique before i brewed.
    the grain bill would be simple. i can tweak the quantities before i brew.
    i just needed to buy the grains before the long weekend in Canada
     
    #10 atomeyes, Jun 29, 2012
  11. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    i assumed the flame-out hops would add more flavour than aroma (non-bittering hop flavour).
     
    #11 atomeyes, Jun 29, 2012
  12. Hands22

    Hands22 Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2011 Florida

    Yes, the flame-out addition will provide great flavor and aroma. The problem is that the longer it sits, the more that hop goodness will fade away. After a year you won't even notice them. You can still do the later additions if you want, it just seems like a waste of hops to me.
     
    #12 Hands22, Jun 29, 2012
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