Brett starter required for mixed fermentation?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Graeme24, Jun 15, 2015.

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  1. Graeme24

    Graeme24 Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2008 Ireland

    Hi all,

    I'm playing around with the idea of brewing a saison which upon completion of primary fermentation I will transfer to secondary along with brett. Is a starter recommended here or would this be mainly for 100% brett fermentation?

    Thanks for your help
    Graeme
     
    #1 Graeme24, Jun 15, 2015
  2. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I would do a starter just to wake Brett up. Not necessary but just what I do. Also i always do bigger starters than needed so I can save some of the yeast/bugs for future batches.
     
    #2 psnydez86, Jun 15, 2015
  3. Graeme24

    Graeme24 Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2008 Ireland

    Hi there. Was planning on using WLP656 for primary fermentation. Will stay in primary for four weeks before transferring to secondary with WLP650. From there I'll let it sit for several months monitoring final gravity
     
    #3 Graeme24, Jun 15, 2015
  4. Graeme24

    Graeme24 Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2008 Ireland

    Thanks for your input!
     
    #4 Graeme24, Jun 15, 2015
  5. Graeme24

    Graeme24 Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2008 Ireland

    I also wanted to ask you this. I have a saison currently in primary. It wasn't intended for experimenting with brett but let's say I take one gallon of this and add brett. How much of the vial would I use?
     
    #5 Graeme24, Jun 15, 2015
  6. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    If just one gallon experiment, it's not worth buying a whole vial, IMHO. I would just buy a bottle or 2 of Orval (or other brett beer) and pitch the dregs.
     
    #6 Supergenious, Jun 16, 2015
  7. Graeme24

    Graeme24 Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2008 Ireland

    A fair point. Will probably hold off until I brew up my next batch. The Orval dregs is a good idea though. Plus I get to drink Orval. Everyone wins!
     
    #7 Graeme24, Jun 16, 2015
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  8. ncaudle

    ncaudle Initiate (0) May 28, 2010 Virginia

    no point in moving to secondary, just go ahead and add the brett to it now.
     
    #8 ncaudle, Jun 16, 2015
  9. Chrispy

    Chrispy Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2012 Washington

    I would add the brett when you add the primary yeast. The saison yeast will have 100 billion cells in a typical vial, Brett typically has 3 billion. If you add them at the same time the brett is going to be overpowered by the saison yeast so you should just get some brett in the taste.

    I brewed a saison and let it ferment for 3 weeks before adding brett. The brett has been in the fermenter for several months and I can't taste it at all. Probably because the saison yeast is good at fermenting the wort to dryness and thus there was very little left for the brett to eat when I added it.
     
    #9 Chrispy, Jun 16, 2015
  10. Graeme24

    Graeme24 Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2008 Ireland

    I read somewhere that those esters will increase as the brett begins to eat up the dead yeast cells from the primary strain. I guess I could potentially wait until primary fermentation is completed before pitching the brett and leaving it there for several months.

    I appreciate all your responses guys. It's a big help. Typically how many months does it take for the character to really come through?
     
    #10 Graeme24, Jun 16, 2015
  11. ncaudle

    ncaudle Initiate (0) May 28, 2010 Virginia

    I thought that too until I experimented with a split batch a couple years ago:
    FV1 got sacc only in primary then brett added after 1 month
    FV2 got sacc+brett added simultaneously in primary
    both FVs sat for 4 months then bottled

    FV2 had more brett character

    it's also heavily dependent on the strain of brett used...
     
    #11 ncaudle, Jun 16, 2015
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  12. Chrispy

    Chrispy Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2012 Washington

    It doesn't make any sense for the brett character to be muted by adding it to the primary, a more nutritious favorable environment where the brett has more time to reproduce and chomp on them sugars and esterify acids.

    If you use it in the primary you get a tropical fruit forward character. The really funky dirty taste from the brett will not show up after primary fermentation and takes months to appear.

    So you will not get less character when using in the primary, you will initially get a different brett character.

    If you want tropical fruity flavors then adding it with the primary is better. If you want both or only funk, then add it after primary or leave it for several months to let the funk develop.
     
    #12 Chrispy, Jun 16, 2015
  13. Chrispy

    Chrispy Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2012 Washington

    The cell count will increase a lot when it is reproducing during primary fermentation, which would allow it to produce more of the funky brett character with aging as more microbes would be working.
     
    #13 Chrispy, Jun 16, 2015
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