Near the end of December I brewed a medium gravity Saison where I sour mashed 1 gallon out of the 5 gallon batch. I pitched Wyeast 3711 and Wyeast Brett L at the same time. This beer is tasting pretty good and has a nice Brett character and the slightest tart twang to it. Gravity is currently at 1.000 as it still sits in the primary. I feel that this beer is missing a little something even though it has some really nice flavors and I was considering adding some fruit. I was looking towards some wine grapes but I feel they will not easily be sourced in the quantity I am looking for. My next idea was blueberries and I was thinking I will go with a mix of some Oregon blueberry puree and a smaller amount of actual blue berries so I can get their skin and seeds involved as well. My question is, will the Brett's fermentation of the fruit produce a more intense sour? I have had two sours from Captain Lawrence which use grapes and Brett but no mention of any lactic acid producing bacteria and they are quite tart. I was thinking it is possible that malolactic fermentation takes place but I thought you would need lacto or pedio for that to happen. Also, if I use a puree, any recommendations on the quantity would be a huge help as I have never used any (or fruit for that matter) in a beer.
malolactic bacteria will take malic acid and turn it into lactic (slightly softer) you dont have any malic acid in your beer as it sits now, so adding malolactic bacteria (very different than pedio/lactobacillus) wont do anything for the beer Ive found that brett L needs a bit of acid to really make the flavors pop, and easy fix is adding a tiny bit of citric acid to bring out the flavors, It doesnt need to be sour so becareful if you go this route (easy to over do it) as to adding fruit. I think that could be done. I dont think blueberry would hold up well to the brett, as its a very light flavor and in general doesnt do well in fermenation. While Im not 100% familiar with Capt Lawrence from their site Im guessing while they dont specifically add souring bacteria, its likely they are present in their barrels. Especially since while brett will produce a tartness it doesnt actually make sour beers. You could add a rather sour fruit, ie rhubarb, strawberriesl, blackberries, sour cherries, and get a good deal of acidity into your beer though. What types of flavors does your beer currently display? I would chose a fruit that plays off whats already in the beer to begin with
I was thinking that the fruits have malic acid in them and the lactic acid producing bacteria interact with the malic acid but I am not really sure how, its very sparse information in the internet from the searching that I did. I knew about Brett not producing a distinct sourness in beers, or anything past a mild tartness but I was thinking that if it was fermenting a different type of sugar, perhaps different characteristics could come out. That is a good point about the barrels at CL and would make a lot more sense. Currently the beer has a lot of the better characteristics of Brett L - a mild barnyard but geared more towards a slight fruitiness which supports a slightly tart taste. I think the tart flavor may be more from the sour mash than the Brett. I feel that the Brett flavors have mostly overridden the flavors of the 3711 but not completely. When I sampled it the other day I really felt like grapes would go well with it, I have heard that red grapes do better in beer, but I could see white grapes matching this beer as the current flavors that I have are more subdued. If I do go the fruit route I would be looking to use the fruit as a supporting flavor, not a dominant one which is why I liked the idea of blueberries since they might lend a softer flavor. But if they really don't hold up well in fermentation then I would have no problems switching to a different fruit.
given time the brett will take any esters produced by sacch and turn them into their own funky flavors, so the beer will evolve quite a bit over time as for fruit, I can see where your going with the blueberries, the earthy flavor of fresh blueberries seems like it would pair well with the bretty flavors, Ive just never seen a beer where that blueberry flavor has held up to fermentation, especially one that will most likely age a while. I have heard (but not tasted) that cooking blueberries helps to retain some of the flavor, For an earthier type of beer I like to add these types of fruits (and have in a sour) Dates (especially caramelized ones) Black cherries Prickly pear tunas blood orange (caramelized juice is good) roasted agave heart heather (flower tips) One other that just came to mind, but Ive never used, is cantaloupe
I would like to go with a more tried and true way for my first fruit beer (and first Brett beer at that). Both Cantaloupe and Black Cherries, while complete opposites both sound like great candidates. I may go the Black Cherry route as they should start coming in season soon and are one of my favorite fruits. I have a lot of farmers markets near my apartment so there is a good chance I could get my hands on some nice ones. If I were to take the route of going with fresh Black Cherries, how much do you think I would need to add to get good flavor, I know I hear that a pound per gallon for a lot of fruit is the general rule of thumb but this beer is lighter in flavor and I know cherries can be quite strong. How would you prepare them? Use the pits or no? As this is a Brett beer I am not as worried about introducing the cherries own wild yeast/bacteria into the beer as it could just add the the funk. I know beers with wild yeast and bacteria are ready when they decide to be but have you seen a general time frame after adding fruit for it to be complete? Thanks for all of your help so far!
I would try 1-1.5#/gal for dark cherries, you might get a range of types to increase the flavor depth. As for how long to sit, 1-2mos max, while fruits tend to have long chain sugars that are slow to ferment, the longer you wait the more the flavor fades. And I would freeze them whole and then add
Alright I will do that, I just hope the Brett doesnt keep chewing away long after they are done, but I will likely be kegging this so I can deal with over carbonation if need be. One more question, should I add these to my primary fermentor or a secondary? I know I will need the head space if I transfer to a secondary so I would just switch to a different 6 gallon carboy.
"Keep chewing"... How low can Brett go? In the OP you mentioned the beer being at 1.000 right now. I relaize the fruit will provide some extra sugars, but I immagine that'll go pretty quick. Will Brett typically go lower than 1.000?
I have heard of sour beers (or beers with Brett and another yeast where Brett will super attenuate like this one) go lower than 1.000 but my SG is stable where it is. He just mentioned that the fruit chould add complex sugars and Brett can be a slow fermenter so it could take a good amount more time from the reading that I have done. No personal experience though.
Right now I have 2 brett fruit beers going. I brewed 10 gallons of generic Belgian blonde and racked 5 gallons onto 11 pounds of black cherries and 5 gallons onto 12 pounds of crabapples. They both sat for about 6 weeks on the fruit, and have been kegged at room temp for a couple of months now for the brett to finish. Both had noticeable but not strong fruit flavors when I racked them to the kegs.
It depends a lot on the strain/species. I understand that brett L is the more attenuative of the three available species , or at least of the strain available to homebrewers. Being that said I think in this case the very low gravity is also from 3711, which is a beast and is know to finish in the low single digits with no help. so this beer probably got down to below 1.005 even before brett L started to chew anything. i have use brett B in a saison that finished at 1.006 and it barely took it down one or two points over several month (it did got a very nice funk). bret b is also used in orval (which finish at 1.008 or 9) and you don't see orval bottels explorting or over carbonated, which would be the case if brett B would go all the way to 0. bret C is even less attenuative.
Thanks for the response. I pitched a vile of WL Brett C along with a pack of WY3711 into 4 gal of OG1.050 this weekend. I expect the 3711 to take it down pretty low given the moderate OG and a low mash temp. I don't have a ton of equipment and I would like to get it into bottles as soon as possible so that it isn't tying up one of my primarys. I figured the 3711 would take care of enough of the fermentables that I would be safe puting it in bottles to age and develop the brett, but I definately don't want to bomb my bedroom with funky red saison in a few months. What do y'all think? Safe bottling with Brett C if the FG is below 1.005? Will the fact that the Brett C was pitched as primary along with the Saison slow it down or speed it up at all?
