Brett'd Berliner Weisse Fermentation Advice

I'm too scared/too impatient to try sours. But, here is a recent conversation covering some of those questions.
http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/more-sour-questions-a-debate.27901/#post-343453

 

I like the idea of doing two separate fermentations for a Berliner Wiesse. You take half of the wort and add Lacto to it and let it get funky at a 100 F for two to three days (tasting it occasionally until it gets goods and sour). Then adding this half of the beer to the other half that has been fermenting with the Brett or with Sach for the same amount of time at a normal temp (68). You then leave the beer at 68 until you decide that it is sour enough to bottle.

 

I've had great luck with a single-decoction no-boil recipe for Berliner weisse. I like the more traditional 1.028-1.032 range, I did a 1.045 version of my recipe that didn’t have the great crisp/tart flavor of the lower gravity versions. The one key is to keep the IBUs really low, Lacto hates hops.

I usually pitch Lacto (a big starter is a good idea) along with US-05 (no starter needed). After primary fermentation I pitch Brett (no starter), wait a couple months, and then bottle. Time is much less important than waiting for a stable gravity. Try to hold it around 70 F, Lacto likes it warmer, but it will get there if given time.

Here is one of my recipes: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/07/cabernet-berliner-weiss.html

 

I just finished a keg made with just Lacto and Brett L. I would suggest at least a separate one liter starter for each as the cell counts in those tubes for Brett and Lacto are very low. Give them a week then pitch at the same time.

I fermented mine starting at 70 and quickly ramping to 78. Finished in three days, kegged at one week. Clean, tart and refreshing. Bottling the second half of the batch in the hopes that the Brett will throw some more character.

 

I know the cell counts are low, but does cell count for lacto/brett matter the same as for Sacc?

 

Depends how you're using them. As he's looking to replace a Sach yeast with the Brett effectively, he needs the Brett to have a comparable cell count to finish fermentation in a timely manner. Likewise, the Brett will outcompete the Lacto and consume all the available sugars if it is given a starter and not the Lacto resulting in a lack of sour. Sach would leave some goodies for the Lacto.
Can you just pitch the tubes? Sure. Why wouldn't you save yourself a potential couple months of slow fermentation and accomplish it in days instead?

 

I should add, that if he were just souring an already fermented batch, no just pitch the tube. That's what they were designed for and why the lower cell count is not generally a problem. They have very little work to do to finish the beer.

 

With Brett and Pedio that is true, but Lacto really won't do much in an already fermented beer in my experience. Pitching a big/active starter is the only way to ensure it gets going quickly enough to steal some sugars from the primary yeast.

 

With Brett and Pedio that is true, but Lacto really won't do much in an already fermented beer in my experience. Pitching a big/active starter is the only way to ensure it gets going quickly enough to steal some sugars from the primary yeast.
OldSock, 5 minutes ago Report#9LikeReply

I could see this. Adding lacto to finished brews has always given me a minimal character and sourness. And I absolutely agree that a starter if it's competing with a primary yeast is essential. previous Berliners I've done had a starter and a head start on the Sach. All I can say towards the OP is that the separate starters worked for me. But if research has taught me anything, it's that experience in making Berliners is variable.

 

if bretts going into your primary there is almost no reason to ever transfer it, it likes things like trub to feast on once its finished with all available sugars and proteins.