Breweries that don't lager their "lagers"

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by goochpunch, May 20, 2013.

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  1. goochpunch

    goochpunch Maven (1,435) Jun 24, 2005 Texas

    Today I was trying a sample of Santa Fe Freestyle Pilsner and chatting with a representative from the brewery. He was saying something about how their pilsner is properly lagered and that most microbreweries don't actually lager their pilsners/doppelbocks/lagers in general. Is there any truth to this claim?

    What are some breweries that make lager style beers that don't actually put them through the lagering process?
     
  2. TheBeerDad

    TheBeerDad Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2012 Michigan

    Safe to say its an ale if its not lagered.
     
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  3. Doc_Hops

    Doc_Hops Initiate (0) Feb 5, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Pretty sure not many breweries in the US these days are actually storing the beer in caves to ferment at colder temperatures...we have glycol controlled containers for that. But I would be shocked if breweries were using say ale yeast and simply calling it a lager.

    Edit: that would be quite a lapse in integrity... let alone brains.
     
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  4. goochpunch

    goochpunch Maven (1,435) Jun 24, 2005 Texas

    I understand the difference between ales and lagers. Maybe my question wasn't clear enough. I'm understanding that the assumption from this rep is that certain breweries are using, say, lager yeast, brewing a pilsner, and then not cold conditioning the final beer enough to be technically "lagered." Is the guy just talking out of his ass, or is there any truth to his accusation?
     
  5. Haydn-Juby

    Haydn-Juby Initiate (0) Dec 30, 2012 Vermont

    It is often more expensive and takes more time to put out a genuinely "Lagered" beer over one that hasn't been. Perhaps some breweries are skipping this step. IMO, still a lager because it used a bottom fermenting yeast.

    [​IMG]

    Anchor doesn't lager and still uses an lager yeast but the end result is somewhat different that a "Lagered" beer.
     
  6. Doc_Hops

    Doc_Hops Initiate (0) Feb 5, 2013 Pennsylvania

    I'm not sure. Quite honestly, I've never heard of this. But if in fact this practice is going on, I think it'd be safe to say that the brewery is simply doing it incorrectly. What matters however is the final product. Have you tried one of the lagers he claimed could have been made incorrectly? If so, what was it like?
     
  7. DavoleBomb

    DavoleBomb Pooh-Bah (2,277) Mar 29, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If I had to guess, I'd say at least half (probably way more than half) of all lager producing breweries don't lager their lagers.
     
  8. Chaney

    Chaney Pooh-Bah (2,031) Apr 20, 2006 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    From my hometown, here is a Bohemian Pilsener by Tin Man Brewing Co. that does just that:
    http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/28567/89166

    The pic was most recently there on the BA profile in addition to the "Pilsener" classification (now listed as an "American Blonde), but it was just removed the other day...... mysteriously. On the website (http://www.tinmanbrewing.com/), it's still listed as a Czech Pilsener.
     
  9. DrunkenMonk

    DrunkenMonk Initiate (0) Jun 2, 2012 California



    Meanwhile....isn't it "pilsner"? What's with the extra e?
     
  10. KS1297

    KS1297 Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2013 Wisconsin

    bottom fermenting yeast =/= lager

    someone post the link to that rant again please
     
  11. Chaney

    Chaney Pooh-Bah (2,031) Apr 20, 2006 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

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  12. BigJim5021

    BigJim5021 Savant (1,227) Sep 2, 2007 Indiana

    It's listed as an American Blonde because I suggested the change to BA. I've already said pretty much all there is to say about Tin Man, but the most important reason that Circuit can't possibly be considered a pilsner is because they brew it with ale yeast. Simple as that.
     
  13. DrunkenMonk

    DrunkenMonk Initiate (0) Jun 2, 2012 California

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  14. Chaney

    Chaney Pooh-Bah (2,031) Apr 20, 2006 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks for doing that. "German Bohemian" should be self explanatory to any brewer/home brewer. BTW, I dig your work: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/22274/view=beerfly
     
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  15. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    No need. It's just that saying top fermented beer = Ale and bottom fermented beer = Lager is no more than a rough rule of thumb, it works in many cases but is hopeless as a definition.Like saying that Americans are people who live in the US which ignores foreign residents and Americans living abroad.Generally but not always true.
    What has happened though is the distinction above has been forced into a definition by many people.It's found so often that whenever it's questioned there are masses of references thrown back at you.Show them sources showing otherwise and you are told "We have redefined the words "ale" and "lager" and in any case words change their meaning"
     
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  16. basscram

    basscram Initiate (0) Mar 29, 2006 Maine

    budweiser. they just use club soda and rice.
     
  17. Bobator

    Bobator Aspirant (295) May 23, 2006 California

    Not sure why you say Anchor doesn't lager. If you go on a tour of the brewery, you'll see that 90% of the ground floor is taken up by refrigerated conicals with a layer of frost on them. I seem to remember that the guides mentioned 30 days of cold storage. Sounds like lagering to me.

    Maybe you're thinking of the "warm" primary fermentation -- done at ambient temperatures in a shallow, open pool-like vessel. That's certainly not the way lagers are fermented.
     
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  18. devlishdamsel

    devlishdamsel Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2009 Washington

    Spot on. Their site verifies this. I just wish anchor wouldn't pasteurize their beer. Pasteurization is the death of beer!
     
  19. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Without more information on what the rep was calling a proper lager time, then it is hard to say. There are many time-temperature profiles used to make lagers. Some are faster than others.

    Of course, I have had cloudy lagers. I have also had ales that were not properly matured. Small breweries have to keep beer on tap.
     
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  20. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,652) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    What are they doing instead? How would one "cheat" the lagering process?
     
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