Brewery: "We do not serve fascists."

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by CraftFan5, Nov 5, 2020.

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  1. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    Good evening, Beer Advocate.

    I apologize in advance if this post breaks any of your rules, and I understand if this needs to be taken down.

    One of my favorite (relatively) local breweries, The Referend Bier Blendery in Pennington, NJ, posted the following to Instagram yesterday:

    "Whatever the outcome, tens of millions of Americans have yet again formally shown their preference for open fascism, racism, white supremacy.

    For all others, we’ll have Lawn Times all week, Wednesday-Sunday from 12-5PM. We’ll bask in the beautiful late season weather and a mutual respect for all humanity. We do not serve fascists."

    Considering how tremendous I think their beer is, I felt it my duty to confirm with them if they meant that Trump voters were, indeed, not invited to the brewery. After dodging some internet trolls, I very kindly described my reasons for voting for him (no, I'm not ashamed) despite not liking him nor asking anyone else to like him. I then asked again if 67 million Americans (now up to 69 million) were truly not invited. Not only was this confirmed, but I was ridiculed, canceled, even.

    This treatment was then extended to other individuals who chose to chime in, including at least one anti-Trump Democrat who was disgusted by the brewer's lack of class, and another person of color whom the brewer implied was a "white" supremacist.

    I am not here to call for any boycotts; I very much support a private business's right to deny service to any individual for any reason. I merely want to publicize this despicable behavior so consumers can be armed with the information needed to make their own decisions.

    Side note: Another of my favorite (relatively) local breweries, Muckraker Beermaker in Franklin, NJ, was one of the first to comment to the thread with an "Amen brother <3 <3 <3 <3" - so I'm looking at you too.

    I bid all you humans of class a pleasant evening.
     
  2. bret27

    bret27 Mar 10, 2009 California
    Society Trader

    It’s certainly not the best strategy for making money, but maybe they have higher values.
     
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  3. Samlover55

    Samlover55 Oct 8, 2015 New York
    Trader

    Wow! What happened to the agree to disagree concept?

    I definitely would not want to be treated that way for I choice I have the privilege (here in free America) to choose.
     
    Shanex, beergoot, jonphisher and 10 others like this.
  4. ecpho

    ecpho Mar 28, 2011 New York

    I mean it is pretty telling that he still received millions of votes after the despicable behavior the last 4 years - republicans have no problem with his racism.
     
  5. jesskidden

    jesskidden Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    So, you are against the Civil Rights Act of 1964? But if you support a business's "right to deny service" regardless of Federal law, then why did you title the thread "Brewery Denies Service"?
    Is this literal? You have to be "invited" to this brewery? You can't just show up and be served? Many decades ago I would be "proofed" before entering a bar or buying at a liquor store (Hell, Wegmans still does it) but my driver's license was good enough - they never asked me to see my Red Card or anything. I got a "I VOTED" sticker AND a postcard from the county thanking me for voting, but neither mention for whom.

    :thinking_face: You seem to hold a brewery to higher standards than the President of the United States...
     
  6. Todd

    Todd Founder Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    Updated your misleading title as it read as if they've already denied service, when there's no such proof of this; yet.

    And here's the full text from the referenced Instagram post:
     
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  7. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    My apologies, not for any reason. I shall rephrase: I do not believe that I, as a private citizen, have a right to demand service from a private business, and I respect a private business's desire to not provide me service. Nevertheless, I find the behavior despicable.

    Perhaps "invited" is the wrong word; I was trying to be kind. Clearly, however, we are uninvited.

    Finally, the President of the United States is not a private business available for my patronage, so that is not an apples-to-apples comparison.
     
  8. Trull

    Trull Dec 24, 2016 Massachusetts

    There are plenty of other breweries out there that don’t discriminate based on political affiliation. I’d take my business elsewhere and not look back.
     
  9. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    Indeed, that is the full post. And indeed, service has not already been denied.

    Since it was not 100% clear, I wanted the brewer to confirm that Trump voters were not welcome, and it seemed that this was indeed the case.

    If I were a private business I would not want to serve fascists either, but equating those who disagree with you politically with fascists is precisely one of the main reasons 69 million people voted for Mr. Trump.

    Again, I am not advocating any kind of boycott; I am merely sharing the information with anyone who may be interested.

    Thank you @Todd for changing the title of the post and not taking it down. Whether we agree or not, I think it's important to see where the discussion takes us.
     
  10. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    Again, I am not trying to organize a boycott, merely relaying information.
     
    Jack_14 likes this.
  11. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Mar 28, 2009 California

    100%!! That is the problem today. People can’t have a difference opinion.
     
  12. gegan

    gegan Mar 29, 2016 Washington
    Trader

    I would counter that reducing the choice of Trump vs Biden to a mere "political disagreement" is a vast and dangerous oversimplification. Political disagreements arise from fact-based, good-faith arguments over how best to govern. The case for or against Donald Trump is as rooted in morality as it is in politics, and goes far beyond some esoteric questions of tax policy..
     
  13. adrock314

    adrock314 Apr 14, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    The “F**k your feelings” crowd sure does get offended easily
     
  14. mrmattosgood

    mrmattosgood Nov 6, 2010 Canada (BC)
    Trader

    Business is business and money is important to keep our business alive. That being said, totally cool with losing a few bucks of bottom line so as to keep racists, fascists, Trump apologists, white supremacists, and gun “enthusiasts” that are totally cool with weapons that spray bullets into first grade classrooms out of my brewery.

    In the end, I’d feel like I’d get more visitors from the other side of the aisle if they noticed less No More Bullshit flags in my parking lot.
     
  15. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Society Trader

    How would they know ones political leanings? Do you have to pass a test in order to get a beer? If someone is proud to be a Proud Boy, why would they want to support a business owned by P.C Libtards?
     
  16. nc41

    nc41 Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    So half of the voters in America are fascist? How I vote is not his concern, and he just potentially eliminated half his business. A really smart business decision right there, the only problem here is him, and I wouldn't spend a penny there. If the situation was reversed and liberals were being excluded as commies, and we’re not welcome I’d feel the same way, so he can stuff it. You can be Republican and not be a Nazi, you can be a Democrat and not be a communist. So stupid in a word full of competition and choices to label anyone.
     
  17. jesskidden

    jesskidden Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    It got drowned out by the "LOCK HER UP" chant.

    Probably not all of them - but they just voted for one.

    (It's also not half, "just" 47.8% :grin:- at this time).
     
    #17 jesskidden, Nov 6, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  18. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    I wasn't at all offended. Again, merely relaying information.
     
  19. DIM

    DIM Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    It just isn't that simple anymore. Romney, McCain, Dubya, voters don't terrify me.
     
  20. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    I agree completely. I would consider the behavior equally despicable if the sides were reversed.
     
  21. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    It certainly isn't that simple; I agree. I hate that I have to choose Trump and all his foibles (if I'm being kind) over Biden who provides cover for violent looters and anti-Semites. I chose what I considered to be the lesser of two evils.

    I would hope that we could at least all come together over a few good beers, but apparently we can't even do that anymore.
     
  22. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Mar 28, 2009 California

    it will be ok.
     
  23. thebeers

    thebeers Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    If someone says “I don’t serve fascists,” and your first reaction is to think, “Hey, I resemble that remark,” your problems extend well beyond beer options.
     
  24. draheim

    draheim Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Society

    Aside from the practical difficulty in enforcing this policy (with the exception of customers wearing MAGA hats etc.), it seems the brewery wants to make a clear statement and maybe encourage people to think a little bit about how they’ve voted and why. Trump’s statements about election results tonight, on election night, and during the campaign certainly support the idea that’s he’s an authoritarian if not a fascist—let alone all his other abhorrent policies, actions, words, and deeds over the last 4 years and beyond. To continue to support him is to tacitly condone this behavior, which is a choice people are free to make. But guess what? Decisions have consequences.

    To me this is different from discrimination based on race, gender, etc. because it’s about a choice you’ve made and not who you are. I’m no civil rights lawyer but I think the brewery is within its rights here—just as a business can decline service to customers who choose not to wear a shirt or shoes (or, these days, a mask). Just as with the election, customers can vote with their dollars if they have a problem with this. Honestly, I don’t.
     
    #24 draheim, Nov 6, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  25. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    Feel free to read the IG thread @Todd linked above. If they had just said "we don't serve fascists," I probably would have ignored it, but it was plainly obvious to whom the brewer was referring.
     
  26. mikeinportc

    mikeinportc Nov 4, 2015 New York
    Society

    Sounds as if the brewery stepped into a place that could cost them, but it's their place , so *shrug*.
    Short of walking in wearing a swastika, an homage to Mussolini, or similar , who's gonna know? :thinking_face:
    Seems like a whole lotta nothin'.
    If it comes up (generally goes against the usual bar protocol, but hey - who am I to knock ...innovation? :thinking_face::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:) , show them the graph below.
    & maybe suggest they listen to Dr Richard Wolff &/or Caitlin Johnstone (Real lefty's lefties:wink:) &/or Dylan Ratigan explain the votes (of others, not themselves) . No way in this universe they can be dismissed as "fascist".

    I think the T-man is awful, & not a real answer, but I understand the vote. Most of the people I know voted that way in '16, but only one liked him & supported him.Just a gamble(as most said), & their best strategic guess.

    Orrrrr.... don't worry about it (=OtherPeople'sProblems) , relax, & have a beer. :sunglasses::beers:

    [​IMG]
     
    #26 mikeinportc, Nov 6, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
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  27. AWA

    AWA Jul 22, 2014 California
    Society

    Everything else aside, I kind of appreciate the balls it takes to potentially turn away business. I'm not going to take a stance on their obvious politics, but I like the "oh, fuck it" attitude.
     
  28. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    We can agree to disagree about your characterization of Mr. Trump, but I otherwise support your statement. The brewery is absolutely allowed to decline service to me and my 69 million buddies, just as I am allowed to tell all of you about it.
     
    NextBestThing likes this.
  29. DIM

    DIM Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Foibles huh? Undermining faith in the vote? Inciting violence? Amplifying crazy conspiracies? Foibles? Yeah I don't want to have a beer with you.
     
  30. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    Actually not at all a bad take.
     
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  31. Amendm

    Amendm Jun 7, 2018 Rhode Island
    Society

    These folks at the Referend Bier Blendery wouldn't now a fascist if they tripped and fell and landed on Mussolini.
     
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  32. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Mar 28, 2009 California

    I would I love to order a few rounds of beers then put a MAGA hat on when I get the bill.
     
  33. draheim

    draheim Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Society

    Well, you’re allowed to tell us all about it as long as BA chooses to allow you to do so. This site also is a private business and can choose what kind of expression it allows in its forums.

    As for my characterization, I think the overwhelming preponderance of facts and evidence unambiguously supports it. And you’d have to live in an alternate universe and/or deny reality itself to suggest it’s an unreasonable position to take.
     
    #33 draheim, Nov 6, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  34. AWA

    AWA Jul 22, 2014 California
    Society

    Wait. What was the original title? Damnit. Now I need to know why it was misleading.
     
  35. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Society Trader

    And, I always like to remind you and your and your 69 million buddies, that around 3 million more people voted for "HER" in '16, than did 45. He's never been the choice of a majority of people. How you like being a minority?
     
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  36. Todd

    Todd Founder Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    “Brewery Denies Service” ... the OP wasn’t denied anything.
     
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  37. AWA

    AWA Jul 22, 2014 California
    Society

    Thanks man. I totally needed that.
     
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  38. CraftFan5

    CraftFan5 May 14, 2013 New Jersey
    Trader

    Correct - in fact the very first thing I wrote was "I apologize in advance if this post breaks any of your rules, and I understand if this needs to be taken down."

    You previously said: "Trump’s statements about election results tonight, on election night, and during the campaign certainly support the idea that’s he’s an authoritarian if not a fascist—let alone all his other abhorrent policies, actions, words, and deeds over the last 4 years and beyond. To continue to support him is to tacitly condone this behavior, which is a choice people are free to make." And now you are supporting this by stating there is a preponderance of evidence. I disagree with this. I don't like a lot of things he says, for sure, but saying stuff doesn't make you authoritarian or fascist. His policies have largely been in-line with fairly standard conservatism, so you calling him authoritarian or fascist for disagreeing with you on policy is really just a matter of opinion.

    I certainly don't condone his behavior, but his policies are quite good. I said above that I hate that I had to choose between the lesser of two evils, but I am not ashamed of it.
     
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  39. AWA

    AWA Jul 22, 2014 California
    Society

    this is going to be such a fun thread until it needs to be shut down.
    Like I said before, I won't get into politics here, but, damn, I love it when anyone just blindly throws a middle finger up to anyone else. I don't care if it's to the president, me, or anyone else. But to be clear, if it's towards my family, I'll throw down. Otherwise, go for it.
     
  40. thedaveofbeer

    thedaveofbeer Mar 25, 2016 Massachusetts
    Trader

    How many fascists in NJ are drinking Spon beers?
     
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