Brewhouse (in)efficiency

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by magoo0903, Oct 16, 2018.

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  1. magoo0903

    magoo0903 Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 North Carolina

    Fellows -

    I have brewed 5 batches back to back and I have a common problem...

    I get OG's significantly lower than the expected OG calculated with beersmith using a 72% efficiency BH...

    Here is what I have:
    - IPA actual OG: 1.057 which equals 60.6% BH efficiency - 6 gal batch. Mash @ 151 to 155 with HERMS for 60 min
    - Stout v1 actual OG: 1.052 which equals 63.2% BH efficiency - 5 gal batch. Mash @ 148 to 153 with HERMS for 60 min
    - Stout v2 actual OG: 1.050 which equals 58.5% BH efficiency - 6 gal batch. Mash @ 148 to 154 with HERMS for 60 min. Mash pH 4.9
    => all have a pilsner 2 row base malt. I am given the grain potential (SG) by the supplier.

    On the other hand:
    - Cream Ale: actual OG 1.052 which equals 76% BH efficiency - 10 gal batch. Mash @ 148 to 150 with HERMS for 60 min
    => base malt 50% pilsner & 50% Maris Otter

    I use the home depot 10 gal cooler to mash with false bottom.
    I crush my own grain just before mashing

    I used lactic acid 88% to lower mash pH and I may have been lower than target of 5.2 (pH meter was dead that week and I received one before the Stout v2)

    Water profile adjustment is made thanks to Brunwater

    Any idea what's happening?

    Historically I was between 70 and 75%

    Thanks

    Matt
     
  2. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    The gap on your mill slipped or is wider than you used to do. Tighten the gap and efficiency will increase.
     
  3. magoo0903

    magoo0903 Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 North Carolina

    Thanks !
    I’ll look into it in a couple of hours.
    Do you have a recommended setting?
    Thanks
    Matt
     
  4. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    My mill is set at .034 to .036", give or take.
     
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  5. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I don't measure my gap. My advice is to set it "tighter than you think you should". Then make a couple of batches, and as long as you don't run into a stuck mash, keep it there, or try going even tighter. The tighter the gap, the higher the efficiency and the less time you need to mash as well. With a good tight gap, I've been mashing every batch for just 40-45 minutes for the past 11 years or so and still get an average 82% efficiency.
     
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  6. magoo0903

    magoo0903 Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 North Carolina

    ok - I will give it a try. Thanks
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    While grain crush is a common cause of mash efficiency/brewhouse efficiency problems, it's not the only possibility. A few questions @magoo0903...

    - Has anything in your process changed (besides potentially loosening the mill gap) since your efficiency was better?

    - Did the issue coincide with the introduction of HERMS?

    - When you were typically getting higher efficiency, were the batch sizes and expected gravities the same as the recent problem batches? (Larger batch sizes are more efficient because some losses are constants spread over the larger volume. Higher gravity batches are less efficient, because the ratio of total water to grains is less, leaving more sugars behind in the mash tun.)

    - Did your post boil volumes match the planned volumes?
     
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  8. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Amen brother . . . measure your gap just like you measure your strike water or grain weight. A simple feeler gauge does the trick:
    [​IMG]

    FWIW, when I switched from false bottom to bazooka screen my efficiency jumped two points.
     
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  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    False bottoms definitely have their uses, but depending on design/installation, they can cause some pretty large dead spaces. I use a "toilet braid" in my mash tun.
     
  10. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    One other thing that would cause a little difference is if the calibration of your thermometer is off. Take care. ( I had this issue! )
     
  11. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Toilet braider here, hahahahahahha, but all the above can be looked at to see if your efficiency can be lifted.
     
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  12. magoo0903

    magoo0903 Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 North Carolina

    I’m right at 1mm so .0394.
     
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  13. magoo0903

    magoo0903 Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 North Carolina

    Thanks for your answer and help here!

    The main difference is the base malt I used. Im now with a local French malterie

    To answer your questions
    - acidification of mash is new(er) to the process. Water adjustment with brew n water is 10 brews in. Beside that same old

    - Herms has been used many brews before

    - yes - i haven’t brewed smaller batch (5 or 6 gal ) in a while. And the 10 gal batch was good. But a 10 points drop... that’s a lot for 4 gal difference. But the answer is all the brews up until the 5 brews were bigger

    - post boil volume was somewhat aligned. May be a bit less than expected but not more for sure

    Thanks again!
     
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  14. magoo0903

    magoo0903 Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 North Carolina

    I’ll get a set of these!

    I’ll have to google bazooka screens. It sounds like a good investment
    Thanks
    Matt
     
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  15. magoo0903

    magoo0903 Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 North Carolina

    I have a digital with 2 probes which I calibrate in regularly
     
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  16. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    That is very wide. Tighten up.
     
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  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Have you measured the pH? It could be a factor, as well as the smaller batch sizes and mill gap.
     
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  18. magoo0903

    magoo0903 Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 North Carolina

    I think I over acidified. I must have been around 4.8ish
    My pH meter had died on me. I got a better / new one and mesured 4.8 on that 2nd stout. Target was 5.2...
    I’ll acidify less and add more in the mash if needed
    Thanks
     
  19. magoo0903

    magoo0903 Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 North Carolina

    I have closed the gap to .7mm or 0.0276
    I’ll brew Friday again and see how it goes!
    I’ll keep you guys posted
    Matt
     
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  20. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I agree that the first place I would look is the mill gap. But if you don't have a feeler gauge, you might not need to get one, as long as you have credit cards in your wallet (and what homebrewer doesn't?). I've been told that the width of a credit card is a good place to start. That's what I used to set my gap and I haven't looked back. Anyhow, it's a starting point, and if you don't like it, make it a little tighter or a little looser and try again.
     
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