Brewing a Black IIPA tomorrow

DIPA's require BIG HOP ADDITIONS and, as a rule of thumb, black IPA's or black DIPA's require EVEN BIGGER ONES!!!!

For 5 gallons, I'd be adding closer to say 3-4oz at the 5 minute mark, 3-4oz for the first dry hopping, and 1oz for the 2nd dry hopping. I'd also ditch the black malt and chocolate malt. The chocolate wheat and maybe some carafa III (dehusked chocolate malt) will give you the color you are looking for without that pesky flavor clash btw hops and dark grains. Not sure how the dark candi sugar will work out, but if you use it let us know!

 

Man.. Where to start.. I don't want to be rude, but that recipe is a bit of a jumbled mess. If you've brewed it and like it, by all means, but let me offer some suggestions. I brew a good bit of IPA's and have done Black ones as well.

You malt bill:

You want color. Thats it. I like a tiny bit of roasty in the finish, prefer dry. Rye helps that, and helps with the head retention. I'd suggest that. Drop the Chocolate malt, the barley, the black malt, and the chocolate wheat.

You can do what you want with rye, or even some midnight wheat. Simple and offers you some great dextrins for head retention. I'd suggest even some carafa III or something even. No harshness, no other chocolate roasty flavors, just a dry finish and dark color.

The sugar addition is fine, but the candi sugar you can leave out. Just use some regular old sugar if you want to dry the beer out more.

Dry beer.. Aint gonna be dry with 2 pounds of crystal in there.. I hate the crystal police, but jesus almighty you have a TON of crystal in there for even a DIPA. No more than a pound my friend.. I'd do less than .75 myself, and supplement some carapils if you want the head and body left to the beer after adding sugar.

Now..

Hops:

You need more. Your complicated 60 min addition is a waste. Use one kind, no one will ever know, even you. 4 different bittering additions is flat out not needed.

Move all those extras, and your 30min additions down. That 30 is a waste too in terms of packing in the flavor. Get a huge bittering charge, and plan for a 10 or 5 min addition, even a 5 or flame out addition, and then do a big hopstand while chilling it. Let it steep like a tea.

Dry hop it large as well. You've got less than 1.5 ounces total for a dry hop. For a big beer, you would want roughly twice that if you want to do two different dry hop regimens.

Hope it helps some. You beer as it stands, sounds like thick roasty, super high finishing sweet.. pale maybe.. Not enough hops and way, way too much going on in the malt side.

 

+1 FATCITY, good advice. I also like the suggestions on the hops, just use the Chinook as FWH and then hop again at your hopstand using just the Chinook, Cascades and Citra. I just did an ipa hopping this way, and I DH in the keg and I had TONS of flavor and aroma.

 

If you're looking for dark color without a lot of roast I would recommend carafa special III and add it in maybe the last 15 minutes of your mash

 

What you have there is a porter like malt bill, with maybe a pale ale hop schedule at best.

It's your beer obviously, so I really hope you brew it the way you want to, and enjoy that damn thing to the last drop.

It is however, a recipe I would advise someone who grabbed it as a Black DIPA, to revise it, because in my mind, and taste, it will be far from that.

The hops you have are great for sure, and I like that you are restraining that Citra, but Nelson is a big kid, but the white wine quality it has could be good with the grapefruit notes of the Cascade, to balance the pine of the Chinook.

I'd find some Columbus to bitter, or even the Chinook would work excellent, it's a rough bittering hop that works so well in DIPA's. Hit it inside 10 min and at flame out and for a hopstand with everything else, and you will LOVE it. Nelson is awesome for the aroma, I do a "white wine saison" with all nelson and it's fantastic for late hopping. Don't waste that goodness.

If you are hellbent on that grain bill, just make a hoppy stout, drop the sugars and up the mash temp. Drop the late additions and dial back your IBU's a tad and see how it works.

 

It's definitely your beer and I'm always hesitant to use "absolutes" when giving advice (but I'm about to). Roasted malts producing large roasted flavors coupled with excess hops simply doesn't work well from a flavor perspective. I've tried it. Brewing a DIPA and getting it as dark as possible while minimizing roast flavors does. I've tried it.

 

I may be misinterpreting what you're trying to say, but no amount of rye can turn an DIPA into a 'Black' DIPA. Unless it's some sort of roasted rye, but I've never seen that.

 

Edit: Chocolate Rye apparently exists. If it's produced like other chocolate malts, I would assume it would add significant roastiness as well as color.

 

Just a jumbled mess of words I was putting out there.

He had flaked barley, assuming it for body and head retention and all that good stuff. I tossed out rye as it works well in a black IPA. Head retention, some body, and the slight spicy note it gives help toss out some percieved dryness.

I was trying to suggest, midnight wheat AND RYE.. or just midnight wheat.. Or rye and some carafa III or something along those lines.

Pretty much color, and minimal roast notes in a Black IPA are key. I like a slightly dry finish from the rye, or even a little roast, but thats nothing more than personal preference.

 

If you're not averse to using an established recipe, Mitch Steele's IPA book has one for The Alchemist's El Jefe.
88% Pearl, 8% Caramalt, 4% Carafa III dehusked. All Simcoe for 90IBUs.

 

Thats a good grist.. not much sweetness, but some from the caramalt.

 

Enjoy it!

 

So I'm brewing that this weekend but my LHBS didn't have caramalt and he said he didn't really know what caramalt was or what a good replacement would be. After a quick search of the web, he ended up switching with Carastan(which I've since found out is basically C-30). From what I've gathered since then is that good substitutes for Caramalt are Carapils or C-10. It doesn't seem like it will make too much of a difference but does anyone know how much of a difference it'll make?

Thanks for any help

 

Caramalt is a name used by at least two Brit maltsters (Simpsons and Muntons). IIRC, Simpsons is about 10L, and Muntons is around 30L. Confusingly, at least one of these (Simpsons) used to be called Carapils (much different malt than Briess Carapils), but the name changed to Caramalt for trademark reasons. So I'd say that whether Carastan is a good sub depends somewhat on which 'Caramalt' the original recipe had in mind.

 

It looks like Thomas Fawcett makes a caramalt as well and the recipe calls for TF Pearl so maybe that's what he used. This chart equates the TF caramalt as crystal 10L.

http://www.brew.is/files/malt.html

If that's the case, then what am I looking at for a difference in flavor? Sweeter, more caramel notes?

 

Most likely. I wouldn't sweat it though.