Brewing a Koslch, Questions on Process

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by kennyg, Aug 7, 2014.

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  1. kennyg

    kennyg Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2007 Illinois

    Hi. I'm gathering ingredients to make a Kolsch in October and was wondering if I should make the yeast starter at 55°F as well so it is the same temp as the wort when I pitch. I'm also a bottler (no kegs yet), what's the difference between the cold crash and the lager? What temp should I lagering at?

    I'm really excited to make this, I've been making nothing but IPAs and can't wait to try this recipe:

    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/kolsch-ag.184979/

    Cheers!
     
    #1 kennyg, Aug 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2014
  2. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Cold crash gets a lot of yeast out of solution. It simply means rapidly reducing the temp. Since you are naturally carbonating, it is not as valuable to you, as you are going to want some yeast present to do the work.

    When I bottled, my approach to lagering looked like this:
    1. Ferment at recommended temperature.
    2. Always taste the beer when you think fermentation is done. This is especially important in cool fermentation beers like lagers and Kolsch. You are looking for diacetyl or acetaldehyde. (buttery and green apple, respectively). If you detect, do a diacetyl rest: raise the beers temp to encourage yeast activity, for 3-7 days, and taste again. When the taste is gone, you are ready to bottle.
    3. Weigh out priming sugar and dissolve in ~1.5 cup water. Heat to boil.
    4. Transfer beer and sugar solution to bottling bucket. Gently stir. Avoid racking sediment; there will be live yeast present. There is no need to add yeast or stir up the lees.
    5. Bottle.
    6. Allow bottles to sit for 3 weeks at 70 degrees to prime. Don't worry about this temp creating off flavors. The only sugar that is left is priming sugar and there is not enough of it to create noticeable off flavors, in my experience.
    7. Put bottles in cooler to lager in the bottle. Some gradually lower the temp. I cold crash and lower to the 30s.
    8. If the fermentation went well, the beer is drinkable when carbonated, but more time in the cooler likely will improve its clarity to both the eye and palate.
    9. Drink!
     
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  3. kennyg

    kennyg Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2007 Illinois

    Thanks for the detailed reply. Can't someone who bottles lager in teh carboy?
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It is indeed possible to lager in a carboy and then bottle later. The 'trick' is whether there will be enough live yeast in solution for bottle conditioning (carbonation) to occur. I have read posts from BAs who state that after lagering in the carboy there is still plenty of Kolsch yeast left in solution for proper bottle conditioning to occur. I can't personally vouch for this phenomenon with respect to ale yeast. I can state that I lager my lager beers in a carboy and then bottle and carbonation occurs just fine with lager yeast.

    If you think there will be enough 1007 yeast in solution after lagering in a carboy then you can perform that process.

    Cheers!

    P.S. Something else for you to consider if you choose to lager in a carboy, you could add some additional yeast at bottling to ensure that there is sufficient yeast for carbonation to occur; just a thought.
     
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  5. kennyg

    kennyg Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2007 Illinois

    Thanks for the great info. I've cold crashed in the carboy for about a week and then bottled with great results, plenty of yeast left to carbonate. However I hadn't considered the fact that lagering for several weeks may leave me with not enough yeast left to do the trick. I'll mull it over, not brewing this until October probably. I just ordered 55lb sack of Best Malz Pilsner Malt and will be doing 10gal of this Klosch as my first batch using pilsner malt. Cheers!
     
  6. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Looks like Jack covered this, pretty much the same info I would have provided. I didn't mean to imply my way was the only way or even a generally preferred way. I settled in on it out of (mostly false) concerns that yeast would not be viable to carb things up. Even though I came to recognize the concerns were probably false, I liked the consistency of I had been achieving with my approach and was reluctant to change it up. I do stand firmly behind item #2 - I abhor overt diacetyl flavors. I also am a firm believer in #9. :wink:
     
  7. kennyg

    kennyg Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2007 Illinois

    Actually I didn't read your post thoroughly before replying otherwise I would have recognized the wisdom therein.
    I like the idea of tasting and then doing a diacetyl rest. I normally bring my ales up to 68 or so for a few days at least before cold crashing or bottling so this makes sense. Thanks for the info and I'll definitely be practicing up on step 9.
     
  8. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    There are many ways to approach making a kolsch. Here is mine...

    I ferment my Kolsch's (I make one each year) around 58F - 60F for the first 3-5 days and then raise the temperature up 3F per day until I reach 66F. I leave it there for another 3-5 days to serve as a d-rest. After that, I take a gravity reading and hope to be 3-4 points above my target final gravity. If so, I bring it down slowly (no more than 3F per day) until it's at about 34F (it should have reached target FG by about the time it's in the mid 40's) and leave it there for 8-12 weeks before kegging. While I don't bottle, I do sometimes add fruit to my kolsch after 2 months of lagering (obviously I warm it back up to yeast fermentation temp range first - again by 3F per day) and there, so far, has always been enough yeast alive to ferment the fruit.
     
    #8 koopa, Aug 14, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  9. udubdawg

    udubdawg Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2006 Kansas

    didn't see anyone answer your first question, or I missed it: you don't need to make your starter at 55. Room temp is fine.

    I make 6 or 7 batches of Kolsch a year and due to keg shortages end up bottle conditioning about half of them on average. You've gotta wait a few weeks of cold conditioning to clean up the beer again, but it absolutely works fine. There's plenty of yeast.
     
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  10. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Good call. I've heard arguments for and against doing so, but I don't have the luxury of having a temperature controlled room to make starters in. So my kolsch starters are generally made at room temperature. I tend to brew my annual kolsh in May, so that means 65F - 75F for me.
     
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  11. ashellen

    ashellen Crusader (449) Mar 26, 2009 Virginia

    the key to making a good Koslch is being able to see the Cologne Cathedral while brewing. assuming you arent in cologne, just print a good picture and set next to your brew kettle.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. kennyg

    kennyg Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2007 Illinois

    Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I'm planning a very similar process to what you describe although I'll be bottling. Can I do it all in the primary or should I transfer to secondary for the lager phase?
     
  13. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    It would not be advisable to keep the beer on the yeast cake for an upwards of 3 months. I recommend transferring it to secondary before the 8-12 week cold conditioning period.
     
  14. kennymfg

    kennymfg Initiate (0) Feb 15, 2014 Illinois

    Thanks I'll def secondary prior to lagering. Can't seem to quote you in my reply using mobile app.
     
  15. kennyg

    kennyg Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2007 Illinois

    From @Soneast 's DnC Kolsch recipe :
    Single infusion, 150°F for 75 minutes. Boil for 90 mins, chill wort to 55°F, rack to primary fermentor, oxygenate, let tempt rise to 58°F and ferment for 2 weeks at 58°. Cold crash in primary to 32°F over a couple day period and lager for 3 weeks (no secondary required). I then rack to a purged keg and continue lagering/drinking.

    I wonder if the disconnect is between your recommended lager time of 8-12 weeks vs @Soneast 's 3 weeks. What's the harm of sitting on the yeast cake during lager (genuinely curious, not trying to flame). I guess I'm just trying to reconcile all the different techniques I've seen for making this style (I def intend to include a diacetyl rest)
     
  16. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    I lager on the cake myself. Personally out of being just lazy, and not wanting to move beer when I don't think I need to.

    I'll ferment my Kolsch similar to @koopa, and then drop the temp after a D rest, and let it sit until I'm ready for it. Usually forget about it, and it's 6-8 weeks hanging out. From there rack to the keg, and let it carb and all that goodness. Usually clear as a bell, and taste fantastic.
     
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  17. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Over time yeast dies and the dead cells break down releasing compounds into the beer that can cause off flavors. Also, leaving the beer on the break material in your fermenter for an extended period of time can do the same thing. For standard ales and lagers, the general rule of thumb that most homebrewers subscribe to is getting the beer off of the yeast within a month to avoid that from happening. I've pushed it to five weeks myself and haven't noticed any off flavors. On a delicate flavored beer like a kolsch that takes quite an investment in time and fermentation space resource, I'd rather err to the side of caution then press my luck.

    FWIW, most commercial breweries remove the break material within 24 hours and get the beer off of the yeast cake within a week. At this point, they consider the primary fermentation to be done and the beer to be "green beer". They then allow the yeast still in suspension to handle the job of cleaning up off flavors (diacetyl, acetaldehyde) that are produced during a normal fermentation over the course of another 7-10 days of secondary fermentation / maturation. It should also be noted that conical fermentors accelerate the fermentation process, so that is part of the reason why those commercial time frames are so quick. Commercial breweries also use filtering equipment to help speed up the lagering time. 1-3 weeks is pretty common place for commercial breweries these days, although some still employ the traditional 8-12 week time frame.

    As an added bonus, doing the transfer to secondary can actually help rouse the yeast a bit and assist them in attenuating that final 3-4 points of fermentable extract at lager temps. Of course this is at the risk of oxidizing the beer. I have a co2 tank that I use to purge the secondary carboy as well as my transfer equipment which helps reduce that possibility.
     
    #17 koopa, Sep 16, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
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  18. Soneast

    Soneast Pooh-Bah (1,751) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, I don't know if my 3 weeks at lager temps would really be considered "lagering." More like cold crashing for 3 weeks. That said, with a nice low ferment temp and happy, healthy yeast, you will still get a clean tasting kolsch using my method. The key being to ferment at 56-58°F and no higher. Yes, you can get yeast autolysis from extended aging on the yeast cake but 3 weeks won't do it. It require months for the yeast to start dieing off, particularly at lager temps. That said, you could consider my racking to the keg for additional aging the "secondary," so if you're bottling, a secondary would probably be the way to go, both to achieve a proper lagering phase, as well as to help drop out other sediment for a cleaner beer into the bottles.
     
  19. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Many commercial lagers only have 21 days or less from start to finish, so yeah 3 weeks is lagering.
     
  20. kennyg

    kennyg Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2007 Illinois

    Thanks again to all for the helpful info. I'm not brewing until October 12th so I've got some time to ponder it. I'm really stoked about making this beer and wish I didn't have to wait so long between brew days. At least I'm making 10gal at a time now so that helps!
     
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