Brewing with Pine (or Fir) Needles?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by priceisalright, Dec 3, 2015.

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  1. priceisalright

    priceisalright Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2015 Ohio

    So with it being the holiday season I currently have a Christmas tree up in my living room. My apartment smells great! My tree is a concolor fir, also known as a white fir. This is by far my favorite type of tree to use for Christmas as the needles smell very strongly of citrus. Seriously, if you get a handful of needles and rub them in your palms it smells more like oranges than a pine tree. So my thought is that it would be really interesting to try to intoroduce these into a recipe somehow, but I don't really know the best way of doing that.

    Has anyone tried using pine needles before? Should I dehydrate them before using, or should I use them fresh? Do you think it would work best to use them like you would for dryhopping? Or maybe throw them in with some orange peels in a witbier? Would pine needles just totally mess with the beer's funk after fermenting?

    Let me know what you think!
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

  3. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    OP refers to the needles as 'pine'; whereas ... they come from a fir.
    No reason not to use them (other than if the tree was treated / sprayed with chems to preserve freshness).

    Some folks add them early in the boil.
    Some add them late.

    Having brewed a spruce ale ... a little goes along way.
    Added 1 dry pint of loosely packed tips @15" to a 2.5G batch.
    On a re-brew ... I'd cut that @least by half.
     
    priceisalright likes this.
  4. priceisalright

    priceisalright Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2015 Ohio

    I wasn't considering the fact that firs and pines and spruces are all different types of evergreen. So is there any reason to think that the needles from my fir tree couldn't be used just like spruce needles?
     
    #4 priceisalright, Dec 3, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2015
  5. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
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    IMO ... go for it.

    Maybe add a little Juniper berry ... too.
     
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  6. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Go for it! Have you tried Pennsylvania Tuxedo by Dogfish head yet? Perfect example of citrus and pine from the hops working together with the spruce tips added. Lots of Christmas tree flavor in that one. I don't know if they add it to the boil or what, but I'd contact them to see if they wouldn't mind sharing their method for infusing spruce
     
  7. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

  8. priceisalright

    priceisalright Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2015 Ohio

    I hadn't heard of this one. I'll have to do some "research".
     
  9. priceisalright

    priceisalright Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2015 Ohio

    Short update:
    I've been doing quite a bit of research regarding how people brew with spruce tips since that's more commonly used than pine or fir needles. Most people seem to boil them, but the batch I made this past Tuesday is being split into two 2.5 gallon batches and I didn't want both of them to be piney since these will both be different experimental batches. Instead, I'm going to throw the fir needles in with my dry-hopping hops for one of the 2.5 gallon batches and see how it goes.
     
    Lukass likes this.
  10. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    You probably already know this, but I'd definitely make sure those fir needles are sanitized well before adding them to the beer with the dry hop. If anything, I'd boil them to kill anything living on the outside. Then you could even add the water that they were boiled in to the beer, given that it's a very small amount. You could even do a reduction, boiling it down to a small amount of piney water and add it. Just my 1 cent
     
  11. Hanglow

    Hanglow Pooh-Bah (2,051) Feb 18, 2012 Scotland
    Pooh-Bah

    Alba is made with both pine and spruce - boiled with pine, spruce at the end

    http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/12142/243/

    Beer Information
    Technical
    • ABV:
      7.5%
    • OG: 1075
    • IBU's: 13
    • Malts: British Pale Ale Malt, Crystal Malt, Malted Wheat
      • Hops: First Gold
      • Additional Ingredients: Pine, Spruce, Bog Myrtle
      Tasting Notes
      • Taste: Sweet Caramel, Fruity, Piney, Earthy
      • Colour: Deep Orange, Amber, Slight Haze
    • Smell: Pine, Sap Forrest, Woody, Slightly Sweet Malt
    It's a bit too sweet for me
     
  12. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    It's normal to use spruce tips (and I'd assume pine needles too) from tender early growth in the spring. Not sure how much the flavor difference would be with mature growth. As noted, a little goes a long way.
     
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  13. priceisalright

    priceisalright Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2015 Ohio

    Do you think freezing them would suffice? They've been in a jar in the freezer for a few days now for storage.
     
  14. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    i don't know if I'd trust them just because they were in the freezer. You might be alright, but it's always risky putting something into your beer that came from the outdoors (other than hops) without boiling/sanitizing first.
     
    HerbMeowing likes this.
  15. beermeplz

    beermeplz Initiate (0) Feb 13, 2015 California

  16. priceisalright

    priceisalright Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2015 Ohio

    Quick update 2: I dropped 1 ounce of frozen fir needles into the 2.5 gallon batch in the fermenter along with my dry hops. I'm bottling on Tuesday, but I cracked the fermenter open today to get a smell and it's smelling great! It has seemingly pulled a lot of aroma out of the needles. In about 2 weeks I'll see if that transfers into a good flavor.
     
  17. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Steaming to sanitize is pretty good ... too.
     
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  18. priceisalright

    priceisalright Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2015 Ohio

    I bottled on Wednesday 1/13/2015 after 2 weeks of fermentation. No signs of infection so it seems I got by ok with just freezing the needles and not boiling them or anything. I'm really happy with the clarity even though there was quite a bit of stuff in the bottom of the fermenter. I didn't use a secondary or do a cold crash or anything. This is only my second batch of beer ever so I'm just happy it is clearer than milk. When I transferred to the bottling bucket I just put the siphon in a fine mesh bag so it would suck up any of the hops or needles. I'll probably put all the dry hops and needles in a bag next time as I lost a decent amount of liquid that I just couldn't suck up past everything at the bottom of the bucket. I filled 20 bottles from this 2.5 gallon batch.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  19. AngryDutchman

    AngryDutchman Zealot (693) Aug 8, 2015 Pennsylvania

    Would it be sufficient / advisible to sanitize your new growth spruce tips in gin before boiling?
     
  20. priceisalright

    priceisalright Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2015 Ohio

    That's probably not a bad idea. The gin would probably still be drinkable afterwards too.
     
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