Brux IPA

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Dave_S, Jun 27, 2018.

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  1. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    I've got a vague idea for a recipe, and I'm either looking for suggestions to make it more concrete or for someone to tell me it's daft.

    The basic idea is to brew a relatively low gravity Brut-ish IPA but using Sacch Trois rather than a non-diastaticus yeast plus enzymes. So the outline recipe would be something like
    * 100% pilsner malt (or maybe extra pale Maris Otter) to 1.050
    * Low bitterness but a good hit of fruity whirlpool / dry hops.
    * Ferment with Sacch Trois at "warm room temperature", so high 70s to low 80s.

    My questions for anyone who's brewed or tried this sort of beer:
    Is this a reasonable idea?
    How quickly does Sacch Trois actually finish?
    Do I need a low mash temperature, or will the Trois eat everything anyway?
    Should I go for low IBUs or no IBUs?
    With that in mind, should I stick in a few hops at five or ten minutes, or keep everything post boil?
    What hops? I've got some Mosaic kicking around that it'd make sense to use. And maybe add Nelson for the grape / gooseberry "white wine" character as well? Or something else?

    Thanks!
     
    #1 Dave_S, Jun 27, 2018
  2. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Definitely mash low. Some sugar might not be a bad idea, either.
    Hopping is definitely subjective.
    Other than that, sounds good.
     
    #2 MrOH, Jun 27, 2018
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  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    My 2 experience with Sacch trois have been nice pale ales, but they did not go below 1.010. The grists included 0.5# golden naked oats, in one case, and 0.5# each carahell, flaked oats, and flaked wheat in the other, so not highly fermentable worts. Consequently, I agree with @MrOH that you probably should focus on making a fermentable wort so as not to discourage the yeast. Maybe a big pitch, too? Go with the Imperial Organic Juice if you can get it -- they package more cells than White Labs.
     
    #3 pweis909, Jun 27, 2018
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  4. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    Interesting - I'd assumed that the Sacch Trois being var diastaticus meant it'd give the "brut" attenuation without the enzymes. If not, presumably a bit of amyloglucosidase would help it on the way?
     
    #4 Dave_S, Jun 27, 2018
  5. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Enzymes should help. And others may have found S. trois to be more attenuative than I did. I've only used it 2x, like I said. 1.047 and 1.051 OGs, both finishing at 1.010, mashed at 154F and 151F, respectively. 5% and 6% crystal malt, respectively.

    Also, just because diastaticus genetic machinery is present does not mean all the genes are active
     
    #5 pweis909, Jun 27, 2018
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  6. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    My experience with S. Trois is very similar to @pweis909. My FG never got below 1.010, but that’s not to say it’s possible with a highly fermentable wort. I would definitely add some sugar. Also S. Trois has very poor flocculation, which doesn’t seem like something you’d want in a Brux IPA.
     
    #6 Supergenious, Jun 27, 2018
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  7. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    Thanks! I might try using amyloglucosidase and see what happens. And probably low rather than no bitterness - maybe aim for about 10-15 IBUs from late additions to balance any sweetness that does hang around.

    I'm not too worried about flocculation for now, so long as the beer ends up drinkable!
     
    #7 Dave_S, Jun 27, 2018
  8. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    First of all, please fix the title of the thread.

    It sounds reasonable enough.

    Just like any other S. cerevisiae.

    While sacch. trois can have active glucoamylase enzymes, it does not, to my knowledge possess the maltotriose specific alpha-glucosidase enzymes that other diastaticus strains possess, which may explain the dissimilarity in attenuation between sacch. trois and known diastaticus strains.

    https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp644-saccharomyces-bruxellensis-trois

    Some more in-depth reading, if anyone is interested. The comments are great, too, as some yeast rockstars chime in on both blog posts.

    https://eurekabrewing.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/brettanomyces-phylogenetic-ii-wlp-brett-trois-crisis/

    https://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.com/2014/12/brett-trois-riddle-wrapped-in-mystery.html

    I'd keep everything post boil, but that's just my preference.

    Those are both good ideas, but any tropical hops would work as they would complement the yeast's ester profile.
     
    #8 EvenMoreJesus, Jun 27, 2018
  9. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    #9 EvenMoreJesus, Jun 27, 2018
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  10. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    My mistake. Citrus is the name of their Sacch trois strain. Juice is their version of WY1318.
    Juice, Citrus -- how could I ever have confused the two?
     
    #10 pweis909, Jun 27, 2018
  11. secondbase

    secondbase Initiate (0) Jun 3, 2015 Tennessee

    Sacch Trois pairs really well with fruity hops, use your favs. I find that it attenuates similar to other basic ale strains so mash low for attenuation.
     
    #11 secondbase, Jun 28, 2018
  12. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    And Dry Hop is a combo of the two...

    Edit: errr wait. Dry hop is Barbarian and Trois.. my bad
     
    #12 wasatchback, Jun 28, 2018
  13. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    It's a slightly silly play on words (Brut vs Brux) but I'm not sure it needs fixing? Thanks for all the other information, though!

    Anyway, I brewed this on Saturday - or rather, my girlfriend brewed it (at her request) while I stood around and gave instructions like "now put the thing back in the thing - no, not that thing! The other thing!" I'll let people know in a few weeks how it works out.

    Thanks everyone!
     
    #13 Dave_S, Jul 2, 2018
  14. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Your "play on words" game needs improvement.

    Please do.
     
    #14 EvenMoreJesus, Jul 2, 2018
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