My latest ingredient I've been playing around with is honey that I have thrown in a pot and cooked on the stove top. I got the idea from Bochet, a offshoot of mead where the honey is burnt/cooked before fermenting. This is my first beer using this ingredient and I'm just a bit curious for a bit more insight into this. Last Sunday I brewed an Old Ale. The recipe I went with was very simple: all Maris Otter malt, English hops to 40-50 IBU, and 44 oz of wildflower honey cooked for about half an hour. I did a long boil (~3 hours) and added the honey in during the last 5 minutes. I didn't use a starter but pitched a healthy amount of Nottingham Ale yeast. The fermentation was started within 2 hours and was violently using the blowoff hose for the next two days. After 7 days, I pulled a tiny sample for a refractometer reading, just for a quick check in with out having to pull to much beer. According to multiple online calculators for ABV with a refractometer, the gravity now sits at about 1.015. Now onto what I wanted to discuss, the beer has taken on a slightly milky cloudiness (I'll have to take a picture when I get home,) and I am curious if the yeast will clear this up over time. Normally I wouldn't think too much at the point, and I honestly don't care whether it does or not as long as the taste is where I want it. I simply wanted to discuss the topic of burnt honey in beer and see in anyone could offer me any additional knowledge or resources on the subject. Part of the reason I ask is because I fermented a cider with burnt honey before this and it had the same cloudiness and it never went away, but I take that with a grain of salt because I killed off the yeast in order to make it a sweet cider. The other part of the reason I ask is because I am trying to decide when to move to secondary. I fermented it a bit on the high side with the hopes of creating a fair amount of fusel alcohols to add to the aging potential. I plan on conditioning this one for a while and I don't want to move it off the yeast either too soon or too late.
I suspect you have more experience with adding burned honey to beer wort than anyone who will read your post. But I can't think of a reason that it should cause cloudiness. In fact, I'd bet it's the yeast itself, still in suspension, causing the cloudiness.
Interesting brew you have there. I've not yet experimented with bochet or burnt honey but might one day. Like the Vike, I don't know why it would be cloudy. I wouldn't expect Notty to cause cloudiness under normal circumstances. You might just want to try adding gelatin, as it has worked for me for various beers, meads and ciders in the past. Boil about a half a cup of water in a glass in your microwave for a few minutes, then add a pack of Knox unflavored gelatin and stir with a clean spoon until it is dissolved -- takes a few minutes to get it all dissolved. Then cool for a while, and pitch into your beer. It doesn't work every single time but usually you will see results almost instantly within minutes if not a few hours. If so, let it sit for about 48 hours. By then it should be safe to rack. You can rack it whenever you want, but in general, the more time in primary, the better; when in doubt, leave it in primary longer than you think you need to. Cheers. Hope it turns out to your liking.
I don't plan on moving it yet, as its only been a week. I will probably rack to secondary after three weeks to a month. If it hasn't cleared up I may consider doing something about it, such as your gelatin method. I think this beer would be a really nice color if it had some nice strong clarity to it.
I,d wait until the brew sits in the secondary for 2-3 weeks. Bet the cloudiness goes away. If not that might not be bad unless you clear beer. I leave gelatin usage to others.
As I said, I may consider using it. I generally don't care at all if a beer is hazy if it tastes right.
I am questioning if it is the yeast still in suspension because with the cider I pasteurized it and the cloudiness remained even after sitting in the fridge for 3+ months.
May have been pectin haze from the pasteurization or addition of (presumably hot) burnt honey for the cider. I wouldn't necessarily think both the beer and cider are hazy for the same reason.
Really really keen to hear more about this brew. It's definitely something that i've had on my experiemental list, and I haven't been able to find anyone who has made one yet! As for the cloudiness... I'm not entirely sure. Most of what I've seen about Bochet seems that the finished product ends up clear, so it doesn't sound like the burnt honey by itself is the issue. Maybe there is some interaction between it and the malts? hops? Maybe particular types of honey is more susceptible?
Id guess it was a protein haze, what type of honey and was it from the same source? The one thing that Id be interested to learn is with the rampant adulteration of honey especially those of Chinese/Brazilian origin, if there might be something that would be added to the "honey" that might cause a haze?
I'll be sure to keep this thread going with updates then. I probably will bottle just in time to drink one around Chirstmas, so I can taste it nice and boozey. Seeing crystal clear Bochet was what got me started wondering about the interactions when added to malt and hops. I think the yeast has begun to clean things up so I am hoping I achieve that same brightness and clarity. I hadn't even thought about the types of honey I have been using. I used a wildflower honey from a farm nearby by house for the old ale. For the cider I used a generic one from the organic isle at Kroger. I tried to keep they honey as additive free. At least for the beer I know it was pretty raw stuff.
From what I can tell, there's no real pectin content in Honey, so that's not the problem. If it was a straight protien issue, then the mead made with straight honey would have haze too no? I had a bit of a look around the net last night, and it seems like a lot of braggots end up a little cloudy / hazy. I wonder if there is some sort of interaction between the honey and the malt, as each by themselves seem to have no problems clearing. But then you say that you also got it when added to a cider, so I'm not sure. Probably best to also ask on a mead-centric site like GotMead, as they would have more experience (maybe?). P.S. Can you tell me more about how the cider turned out? Probably PM or the post will get deleted
I've have a braggot I did a couple years back and its crystal clear. I can read through my wine bottles that I still have. That one I pasteurized as well but I did it in the more traditional wine style. And as far as commercial goes, the last ones I had I remember being clear as well. I guess the next thing would be to try and figure out if the burning of the honey causes any major chemical changes. But I can't imagine that being any different from plain dark candied sugar. Although with candied sugar you control the temp by adding water to keep it from getting too high; with the honey you can just crank the heat and let it burn. I just took a close look again and fermentation is either moving very slowly or stopped, the cloudiness seems to be down a little, so I am hoping that means i just jumped to conclusions and wasn't patient enough.
