Can an IPA be TOO balanced?

Wow, thanks for the mention.

Like someone has already said there's plenty of room for hop forward American IPAs in the UK pub scene, and for wholly American inspired bars in general, just like we're seeing pop up everywhere around the world. I think the most pertinent point from all this American influence in the UK is new world hops creeping into rather more traditionally made stuff. Ales that still retain Englishness. A lot of new-age cask brewers are using US/Australasian hops and yet not producing hop bombs. It's all very interesting.

 

Balanced and bland ... well yes of course things can be both.

Water is a prime example of this product definition !!!

As for beers there are thousands of perfectly drinkable beers in the UK that are balanced but can also be too bland for my palate. No brewing defects but utilising UK hops, and not massively hopped, they just come out as sessionable pales (typically 3.4 - 4.2% ABV).

Some brewers market them as IPA's in the UK but compared to the US expectation of the style they fall short in terms of level of hopping and ABV. I'm not one to dwell on history, nor do I care to get hung up on style origins etc but for me I expect an IPA to be between 6 & 7 % ABV and carry a good hoppy bite.

As for the Beer Cast list, now 3 years old, there are plenty of breweries in there kicking out good hoppy stuff.

Kernel consistently throw out well balanced drinkable IPA's and I would always pick them out from the rest of the IPA crowd in the UK.

I actually like DIPA's myself and I think there are some great balanced examples in the UK right now, Buxton - who got #1 spot in said list, Cloudwater (new since that list) and Beavertown (were around but on a smaller scale) all spring to mind, especially the latter. I worked my way through a four pack of Beavertowns Skull King [2nd batch] on Saturday @8.7% and this is my idea of a well balanced hoppy DIPA, eminently drinkable and not once did I got tired of it, my only regret being that I only had 4 cans ... but hey that's my palate which pretty much means shit compared to anyone elses !

But lets not confuse the UK pub market here with the American inspired craft beer joints of the big cities in the UK. What sells in the latter will likely go down like a turd sandwich in the village local, the domain of sessionable goldes and bitters, and an older likely more conservative drinking crowd. I'm guessing here but the number of bars that you are likely to get 6%+ hoppy IPAs on a regular basis in the UK probably accounts for maybe 0.5% of the total pubs in the UK or something like that.

Returning to the OP ... balanced is great but balance means just that ... needs to balance the flavour throughout the drink and not be bland at the same time !

 

Words don't have a lot of meaning when they mean different things to different people.

Balance is not (imo) an indicator of how much flavor/taste a beer has. "Bland" is a description of level of flavor. "Balance" is a description of how those flavors work (or don't work) together.

 

Completely agree. This is why I've also long held the opinion that Two Hearted is the standard for balance, and why I can drink a 6 month old IPA without dying. I love a palate crusher as much as the next guy or gal, but I can't drink extreme beers hand over fist. One massive hop bomb in a sitting is more than enough!

 

When you say "balanced" in my definition it's a good thing - harmony between sweet/bitter (and sour/salty/umami for that matter) is a thing worth striving for in a beer, or in food even - balance is just another thing that makes beer great!

What you don't want, and this is really what I think your thread was aiming for, is for a beer to be too "muted" - in any aspect (flavour, aroma, mouthfeel, appearance). A beer that is too muted is nothing more than a light beer, and tbh we're all here because we enjoy a great beer and light beer is a waste of time.

TL;DR - Balanced awesome, muted sucks.

 

Let me ask PtE...

He says no.

 

But what does PtY say!?!

Cheers!

 

Is "too balanced" code for "not a hop bomb"?

 

I prefer "malt bomb" IPAs like Celebration or Upslope IPA. You may call it too balanced, but I call it delicious.

 

I personally am tired of the word 'bomb'.
Doesn't have to be extreme one way or the other.

 

I guess it depends on where the fulcrum is. What 2 or 3 (or more) characteristics do you really want in your IPA? Go from there.

 

Younger is a great beer.

Had 2 pints of it at RR last month ... supremely balanced !

 

I dont want my IPAs balanced?!?!?

hops, breh.

 

I think we are making too much of this. Abner from Hill Farmstead is perfectly balanced to me. So is Heady Topper. So are Pieces or Eight /Fair Maiden, Julius, Congress Street, PtE and 60 minute. I've had beers that didn't taste balanced to me because they were screamingly, astringently bitter, or syrupy sweet.

Here's where I see two rough approaches.

• "traditional/west coast" American IPA = significant bitterness, hops at boil, requiring significant crystal malt or other malt sweetness for balance
• "New England" American IPA - huge hops added late resulting in very low bitterness, allowing very light malt base in order to achieve balance.

Hop flavor is not the determining factor of "balance", it's really bitterness vs. sweet malts in my opinion.

 

I know of more than a few West Coast style IPAs which do not use "significant crystal malt" and their base malt is North American 2-row malt which does not provide much malt sweetness.

Cheers!

 

I took a risk, and a bad risk at that, by trying hop juice by left coast and the imbalance was so bad towards the malty end that I had to drain the rest. It tasted like water with melted caramel diluted in it. So bad.

 

It's just a general view that high bitterness needs to be balanced by malt sweetness, wherever made. Hoppiness does not equal bitterness.

On a hunch I checked...and Green Flash West Coast IPA uses NA pale 2-row. This doesn't surprise me as it is one of those I find to be seriously unbalanced to the bitter end of the spectrum.

 

And here is a recipe for homebrewing a Bell’s Two Hearted Clone based upon inputs from Bell’s Brewing brewers.

Note the low amount of crystal (caramel) malt and Briess base malts.

Cheers!

For 5 gallons (19 L)

10 lb (4.5 kg) | Briess Two-row Brewers Malt (1.8°L)

2.83 lb (1.3 kg) | Briess Pale Malt (3.5°L)

8.0 oz (227 g) | Briess Caramel (40°L)

1.2 oz (34 g) | Centennial pellets, 9.1% a.a. (45 min)

1.2 oz (34 g) | Centennial pellets, 9.1% a.a. (30 min)

3.5 oz (99 g) | Centennial pellets, 9.1% a.a. (dry hop)

White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast or WLP California Ale V Yeast

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/bells-two-hearted-ale-clone/

 

Whatever they use, the result is pretty balanced. I'm not a brewer so I'm not looking at any specific malt, simply the resulting "maltiness". The balance can be achieved by using hops in a way that dials back the bitterness. It's a sliding scale. By the way, when I look at these recipe sites and see very divergent views on how to make many of these beers.

 

That is specifically why I sent you the Two Hearted recipe since it was based upon input from folks at the brewery.

I am just trying to provide some help/input here since I have been brewing for over two decades.

Cheers!