I’m fixing to brew the 3rd version of a brown ale again. I wanted to try and incorporate candi syrup this time. I was thinking of using a D-45 grade syrup. I was just wondering if anyone else is familiar with using the stuff and could help me with my recipe? I’m looking to see if it helps give a more caramel/sweet note to my brown. Here is my grain bill and hop/schedule. Any advice will be helpful. Also I was inspired by a local brewery who did a brown recently and used toasted coconut. They used Sabro hops too so I’m going this route as well. 5 gallon all-grain batch 8lbs- Marris Otter 1lb- Medium crystal malt (65L) .25lb- Pale chocolate malt Single infusing mash @154 for 60min with 3.5 gallons of distilled water Hops 1oz Sabro at 60min 1oz Sabro at flameout Yeast WLP013 ferm at 63° until almost at FG and pitch 2lbs of toasted coconut for week or two. So my question is would I substitute any grains for candi syrup or just add it too the same grain bill? Plan to add at flameout. Not looking to really go over 7%ABV also. Thanks for any help guys! Cheers
I've used D-45 recently and was pleased with the results. However, it's difficult to say how much it added to the malt flavor/aroma. Be aware, some software shows this as 45L which is not the true coloring effect you will see. Here's more details on how that works. Candi syrup isn't normally used in an American Brown but I wouldn't let that bother me. Personally I'd use a darker syrup (D-90, 32L), and darker caramel to hit the caramel/sweet note you're looking for, maybe some Munich (2 or 3) for complexity. I'm suspicious if .25 pounds of chocolate will be noticeable, you might want to give that a boost. Your ferm temp is below White Lab's recommendation, I'd shoot for 66+. As for grain substitution, I'd target an FG around 1.014 and do whatever it takes grainbill-wise to hit that. A pound of the sweet stuff will give you ~7 points, just plan around that. An ABV of 7% is a mite high for style, but you're the only judge that gets a vote. If I missed any of the Brown parameters my preference is to error on the high side and have something closer to a Porter rather than a weak-ass Brown . . . but that's just me. What's your dog's name?
I would recommend getting some calcium into the mash, even if the predicted pH is already in range without it. The reason is that it helps stabilize alpha amylase.
Thanks for the help, I currently don’t use any software to brew, I tried to get the one everyone uses on here but it doesn’t seem to work in my phone and my wife won’t share the laptop lol. I usually find a recipe on the internet that sounds good or one someone shared and try and change a few things and experiment with it until I make it the way I like. I will eventually use a software and learn all the specs on my system but for now I’m just enjoying the hobby and sharing with my friends and family. The big guy in the pic is named Gunner. He loves brewing with me. He hangs out at the kettle all day with me and as a reward I always make him biscuits with the spent grains. Again thanks for help and link!!
I was considering trying to learn how to correct my water to the beers now but I need to invest in some equipment I think. How much calcium would you recommend for this. Like I said I won’t be able to measure anything as of now. I’ve just been going to the grocery store and buying about 6 gallons of distilled water and using this so far. My city water is chlorinated that I don’t want to use it and it would take my fridge filter 2yrs to fill that much lol
Also I had to google what alpha amylase was . So from what I understood it will help in breaking down the starch into smaller sugar molecules?
You don't really need any special equipment to do water adjustments, other than a decent scale for small weights, which (IMO) everyone should have for weighing hops anyway. Even without a scale, you can get away with googling up weight to teaspoon equivalencies for various salts. Measuring by volume isn't perfect, but it's better than guessing. Looking at your recipe, 2 grams CaCl2 and 2 grams CaSO4 should get you a pH around 5.4 and provide plenty of calcium. It will also provide reasonable levels of chloride and sulfates, for flavor, though I would probably add another gram or two of each to the boil. You'll nee more than 6 gallons for 5 gallon batches. Well, you can treat your tap water with campden tablets to get rid of the chlorine/chloramines, but unless you know the water profile, good mash pH will be hit or miss. That said, there is almost certainly some calcium in your tap water, so there's that. Yes, alpha amylase is one of the enzymes that converts starches to sugars. The other is beta amylase. They work together. And calcium helps the alpha.
To be clear, the Candi Syrup by itself will do nothing to add sweetness as it's 100% fermentable (that's the 7 points) and will leave no residual sweetness. This is the same as using corn/cane sugar, all you're doing is adding alcohol. The supplier's claim is it adds toffee, vanilla, and toasted flavors which may compliment the recipe. These subtle flavors may be lost when competing with lots of dark malt and hop flavors . . . or they may come through. If you drop grain for the syrup you will lose sweetness due to a lower FG giving a less noticeable mouthfeel. This is one of the techniques used to make light beer. To boost sweetness you want to adjust the FG and overall bitterness. Example: a very thin beer can be sweet if bitterness is low, just like a heavy beer can be bittered more heavily to keep the residual sweetness from being overpowering. This is the "balance" everyone talks and it can be tricky to find the perfect spot. Even copying a recipe is a little iffy because your system and supplies will be different. I had the exact recipe for Hoegaarden and it took about 7 attempts to accurately clone it. But, just like time spent with man's best friend, that's the joy of brewing.
From a practical standpoint, you can treat it as 100% fermentable and not be far off. However, a little bit of the sugar has been caramelized/melanoidinized and rendered unfermentable. A while back, @Naugled measured the fermentability of D-180. I took that data, added a simplifying assumption, extrapolated it to the other colors, and put the results in BrewCipher. For science.
Candi Syrup will add some body, but I wouldn't say that it adds sweetness. To get the caramel/sweet note that @Jasonja1474 is looking for, I'd say add in some C-40 and drop the bitterness a little. FWIW, when I use Candi Syrup, I like to add it at high krausen. Keeps the aroma from blowing off the a little, and gives the yeast a little hand up if you didn't pitch enough.
personally I'd be adding a healthy dose of biscuit malt a a little simpson's DRC. And if you have any extra DRC, you can add it to your morning cereal....it's delicious. this post brought to you by simsons malt JK....
For Science: I added a pound of D-180 to an existing recipe (in Brewcipher). The software dutifully added six points to the OG. If there are un-fermentables in candi syrup I expected the FG to increase, but the opposite happened. The more syrup I added the lower the FG became. Should I be confused?
Don't forget that alcohol is less dense than water. Although D-180 is less than 100% fermentable in terms of Real Attenuation, in terms of Apparent Attenuation (which is what's computed from hydrometer readings) it's more than 100%, thus the ever decreasing FG.
Whew . . . glad I don't have to be confused. Confession: I don't do any of this for Science, it's all for the Beer. For the OP: Using candi syrup still won't make the dog biscuits tastier. Break this gently to the big guy. Aside: I don't care what Bart Simpson says, you'll see me putting ketchup on my oatmeal before I put DRC on my Wheaties.
Lol, yeah Gunner just wants biscuits he doesn’t care about taste. Seems like unless I want a higher ABV it’s really not worth messing with it. I just read somewhere, I don’t remember where that the dark syrups are what the British use and is the “secret sauce” so to speak that makes their brown ales stand out.
I'm not sure, but I think Invert Sugars (e.g. Invert Syrup #2) are less common in English beers than they used to be. But if you're interested in incorporating one in an English Brown Ale, I'd recommend looking at those, rather than at Candi Syrups, which are a Belgian thing and a bit different. You can actually make your own Invert... http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert ETA: I believe that Invert Sugars made per the above link may typically be less fermentable than Candi Syrups. I have made Invert #2, and have also made homemade caramelized sugar, and the products seemed fairly similar. I ferment tested the caramelized sugar and it was much less fermentable than Candi Syrups.
