Over the holiday I had a bottle of the Bruery Rueuze, and have had many other American attempts at Gueuze. While a solid beer, like many of it's compatriots, there just isn't that complex funk I get from many Belgian examples, especially Cantillon. I am still very much a sour newbie and have a long way to go before getting to a multi year pipeline to even start thinking of a Gueuze like blend, but was wondering if anyone has had success in getting that stinky feet, alpine cheese funk in their sours.
Had a very nice Cantillon Classic Gueuze on Friday (remarkably $15 Canadian for a 750, TGI Boxing Day apparently). I didn't get a huge amount of funk. Minerals, lemon, hay etc. Delicious. Some of my sours get funkier than others. Leaving a beer to sour in the primary fermentor will encourage some of the weirder flavors to develop, thanks to autolysis products from the primary yeast. Likely the early enteric/oxidative fermentation in true spontaneous fermentations is another piece of the puzzle that many American sours forego.
Thanks for posting. From reading your blog, I know you have experimented with leaving wort to cool overnight in the kettle to encourage that early enteric inoculation, which is something I did on my first sour attempt. Do you believe that you get significant results from that short cool ship approximation? I know you've gone back and forth on turbid mash and it's contributions as well. What is your current thinking with regard to turbid mash vs. single infusion mash?
That most recent lambic (single infusion, natural cooling, and 3F starter) has been my best and most authentic tasting lambic. It also took the longest aging time to become palatable. Maybe the hard bung preventing sulfur from escaping. These beers are so variable it is hard to say for sure. The right microbes are to me the most important factor though.
@OldSock, When it comes to pitching bottle dregs from great commercial sours, is it a "the more the better" type of situation? I've got a bottle share coming up and I'm considering brewing a first attempt at a sour soon. If there are 5, 10, or even more great commercial examples at the share, is it worth collecting the dregs in a single jar of wort and pitching the mix into the primary? I'd be pitching a clean yeast and probably the Rosealare blend, too, BTW.
I usually stick to 2-3 really good bottles, plus some brewer's yeast (and often a blend). More won't hurt, but like hops I'd rather use a couple from the same family than a shotgun of everything. The fresher and lower ABV the beers are the better. Just because Russian River Consecration Batch #1 is drinking great now, doesn't mean the dregs are viable. Evaluate the beer before pitching too, think of it as the microbes' resume.
When something seems like a good candidate for additional dregs, I am thinking in terms of enhancing how the sour is developing. One of my barrels gets a periodic addition of exclusively Jolly Pumpkin dregs, as I really love their sour red. Another is using dregs from my own Roselaire blend-based beer, and a third has yet to receive any dregs yet at all. The third is too young to decide what flavors I should seek out from it at this point. By the way, I highly recommend the book OldSock is using for his avatar if you are interested in going down the rabbit hole further. He has compiled a truly excellent reference for the hands-on brewer of sour beers that touches on a full range of helpful techniques and creative ideas. I think you may find several good ideas for focusing your desired flavor profile in your own efforts.
I think using aged hops are often overlooked for the character they lend to the finished product. I recently bottled my first sour that I used aged hops in and it definitely had a funky aroma that my other sours have not had. Also Cantillon bottles all their beers with a sprinkle of magic.
I agree, their barrel room during active fermentation smells like nothing else I've ever smelt! Truly unique.
The funkiest beer I've made underwent an early enteric bacteria inoculation by leaving the wort open in my kitchen for a few hours. That and I left it in primary for ~9 months, so I agree with @OldSock as above.
