carbonating from a single burst?

Discussion in 'Home Bar' started by rapidsequence, Sep 4, 2015.

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  1. rapidsequence

    rapidsequence Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2006 Virginia

    Need a math guy to answer this...

    My corny kegs say max 130 psi. My CO2 regulator goes to 60 psi. If I blew a 60 psi burst into a keg, then disconnected it and let it sit in the fridge, how long would it take to equibrate, and would the beer be carbonated? More importantly, what pressure and time would be required to do this effectively? Just trying to figure out a way to be carbonating beer when my kegerator is full, without buying more CO2 equipment.
     
  2. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    I think you are making this more difficult than it needs to be.

    force carbing at extreme pressures is not easily accomplished. mathematically your question could be calculated but the set up would require all the variables to be precise. if you want to have your beer ready quickly you should consider a few shortcuts.

    30 psi into 38 degree beer, followed by shaking the keg to speed up gas absorption. do this a few times. disconnect the gas. leave it overnight. connect gas at serving pressure, 10, 11, 12 whatever you like. hopefully you are slightly undercarbonated and a day or so at the correct serving pressure will bring you right in target.


    or... blast 100 psi, wildly overcarbonate, spend the next few days de-gassing.

    also, if you must, you can swap out the 60 psi for a 100 psi gauge. it is a simple 1/4" threaded pressure gauge and they are cheap. your regulator will probably supply 100 psi. the reason you don't want a high pressure dial is because it is difficult to find low pressure, 12 psi for example, on a dial that reads from 0 to 100. I personally like a 30 psi gauge for this reason. regulators for wine will have a 15 psi gauge which is better still.

    Cheers.
     
  3. rapidsequence

    rapidsequence Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2006 Virginia

    Thanks Billandsuz for your response. I realize that in a sense I'm making it more difficult than it needs to be, its just sort of a thought exercise as much as anything I guess. I mean, would 100 psi, untouched, really put that much more CO2 into solution than shaking the crap out of it for 5 minutes at 30 psi? That's probably a very easy question for someone, but not for me. Also yes, the volume of beer, the size of the headspace, the temperature, the desired final volume of CO2 in the beer, etc will all change the answer. Anyone who wants to, feel free to make some reasonable assumptions.
    Thanks.
     
  4. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    I've cranked it up to 55-ish psi at serving temp for 24 hours. No shaking, rocking, or rolling. Then vent the excess pressure and it's pretty close to drinkable. Still a crap shoot, but it works. FYI, if you change the gauge, you'll likely also have to change the pressure relief valve. Mine pops at 60psi.

    Like billandsuz, I prefer 30 psi gauges on my secondaries. Much easier to use. I use a 60 on the primary because there are times when I want higher pressure.
     
  5. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    good point.
    every damn time that relief valve blows like a cannon shot I swear I lose a few minutes from my life. can never get used to that.
    Cheers.
     
  6. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    I've trolled for fluid dynamicists before with no luck ... my guess is they are all winos.

    But, you can compute this ... it's a good exercise and gives a good understanding of the Ideal Gas Laws (just ask Roger Goddell if this is important):

    First, volumes of carb level refers to the amount of space the CO2 would occupy at standard temp and pressure (0°C/14.7psia). So 2.5 volumes would be CO2 that equals 2.5 times the volume of your beer at STP. As you already stated, headspace volume is a major player. Example: I hit a full keg with 30psi and in a couple of days the pressure is so low the lid won't seal. But hit a half-full keg with the same 30psi and in a couple of days the pressure stabilizes in the 10-12psi range. Same 30psi, but the full keg received very few molecules of CO2 (~1" headspace) compared to the half keg (~18").

    So, for a one shot carb: compute your headspace volume, and compare to your beer volume and desired volumes. Remember, pressure and volume are inversely proportional (Boyle) and adjust for actual temp which is directly proportional (Charles). Be sure to convert to Kelvin and maybe your PRV won't resemble a Hail Mary pass.

    Will this work? Probably not. Suspect you use a 10 buck gauge, Home Depot ruler, and what ever thermo is laying around. But no harm in giving it a shot ... just remember, the theory behind this set Tom Brady free!
     
    #6 PortLargo, Sep 5, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
    mikehartigan and billandsuz like this.
  7. Seacoastbrewer

    Seacoastbrewer Initiate (0) Jun 5, 2012 New Hampshire

    Actually Judge Berman accepted the Wells report and associated Exponent reports as facts and made no determination regarding the science models used. Interesting read though
     
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