Cask ale appreciation thread

As context, I live in Darlington, a town of 100k people. But I know it would be possible to do the same further south in Sheffield or further north in Newcastle. Hell, it would even be possible further east, in Middlesbrough now, where a new micro pub opens every week seemingly.

 

Well obviously you can get it in a big city. But you're lucky to get it in a relatively small place. I'm sure there are others around!

I just feel lucky to live in a big city where even though many pubs are overpriced and rubbish, that still leaves quite a few brilliant places. Especially if you want to go drinking on a Saturday when many breweries open their own buildings as tap houses.

 

Yeah, I was just curious about where one could live where >90% of cask is a bitter. It's not even true of good village pubs up here. Currently sat in a nice micro pub enjoying my third stout/porter of the weekend.

Going back to the cask in America discussion, one of (if not the) worst pints of cask ale I've ever had, that wasn't actually 'off' was in the Michelin starred Spotted Pig gastro 'pub'. Can you imagine being served a poorly made and corked wine in a Michelin starred restaurant? No, because it wouldn't have the star. Goes back to not being a part of the culture and not having the necessary knowledge base, experience and demand to produce the product. Meal was great though!

Like someone said previously, even a middling brewery specialising in cask is going to be doing that day in day out all year. And the staff in the pub know how to tap, keep and condition.

 

This last summer, I spent a weekend in the Cotswolds and also had a lunch at Pub in Oxford that served only cask ales. It was the first time I had really searched out cask ales and used CAMRA's app, which was a great way to find pubs in unfamiliar areas. I loved the flavor of the beers, bitters, pale ales, a stout or two, all cask. Nonetheless, maybe this is due to being spoiled by living in Germany, but after awhile, the lack of nice head on a beer began to bug me. I kept telling myself that I just needed to get used to it, but the flatness of a few of the beers was a detriment to aroma and flavor.

 

This is a uniquely southern problem and not representative of cask ale at all. Some cask beers will naturally produce a nice head. The majority will require a beer engine/hand pump swan neck and sparkler. Many will not even need a sparkler. It is a beer by beer decision.

For some reason, which I agree, is bad for the beer; the south and east of England thinks gravity is good for ale (it's not), that swan necks aren't necessary and that sparklers are irrelevant.

Try and get to Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Newcastle...

 

I'm assuming he means relative flatness, compared with a lot of other beers? I've never found flat cask beer in a pub that isn't a Wetherspoons. Sparklers don't add carbonation to a beer either.

The most important thing that seems to result in getting beer past its best is the Camra crew's opposition to cask breathers resulting in casks that go stale more quickly than necessary.

Either way, it's not particularly a "southern problem" that I've noticed, if I'm honest. I'm sure there are some shit pubs north of the Watford gap!

 

Flat cask beer is common enough, unfortunately. It can be down to the beer, it's conditioning (very common), whether gravity or beer engine and whether there is a swan neck on the pump and or sparkler.

All the real ale pubs up here get through a cask well before any issues arise that could have been solved by a cask breather. Let's be honest, if you're a pub and find it hard to get through 72 pints in 2-3 days, you're probably not going to be open much longer anyway. And if you struggle, there are plenty of breweries that will give you a 36 pint pin or fill one of your own. I know this first hand. I also know that it's a myth that certain styles of darker and stronger cask beers are undrinkable after three days. Some can easily go well more than a week.

Sparklers do indeed add carbonation, a proper head and proper lacing. That is why they exist. If they did not do that, they would not exist. Nor would swan neck pumps. I have poured the same cask beer myself with and without and it makes a material difference to the mouthfeel of the beer.

It isn't untrue to say this is a southern problem. Gravity dispense does not exist in the north. It does in good pubs in Norwich or the Bree Louise in London though, for example. Me and friends have had arguments with bar staff in the Euston Tap because they have served us flat cask beers that we have had properly elsewhere that were completely flat and lifeless, which could have been rescued by a sparkler. Only to have patronising replies trying to educate us on cask beer, when it is ours culturally and we have decades experience drinking it. Kinda like a Frenchman telling a Basque Spaniard that txakoli is shot wine and shouldn't be poured from a height.

 

Yeah, and its disgraceful. Contempt for the customer. That's why I don't drink in pubs any more that have one cask for the sake of it, or if I do, I have a pint of lager or bottle etc. It's also why I do my rsearch before going somewhere unfamiliar. Pretty easy to avoid pubs that serve a cask or two but where local real ale drinkers wouldn't go in a million years.

I've said to one of my favourite landlords on two occasions that a pint is slightly warm. Like, minimally over warm and without a further word he has pulled another one straight off and given me the cellar temp one rather than one that was partially in the line. So that's the flip side in places that have slow periods. They should also replace an off pint no questions. Again, because this is so rare in a high volume cask place, they'd do it straight away usually. If not, just get em to smell and taste! That's what one mate did to a young barmaid who promptly wretched!

 

Beer by beer decision like I said. The pub that usually wins town pub of the year round here doesn't use them as much as you'd think. Certainly wouldn't on a citrusy pale, like you say. Obviously you don't put them on until you've seen what it's like without. But also, being the north east, all the pumps have swan necks too.

I'll join in the ESB love in. Phenomenal pint. Never get a good pint of London Pride in the smoke though. Usually my fault for breaking my own rule and ordering it in places where it's the only pull. Great up here though.

 

How exactly does a sparkler add carbonation to a beer? It certainly froths up it up to get a nicer head, and aerates it but it won't actually carbonate it more. I do prefer beer like this though, it seems to wake up the beer and encourage what carbonation it does have.

I've never drunk in the north but some Northern style bitters I have had haven't been my cup of tea at all, fairly slimy to my tastes. Would you say that there's a noticeable difference from your experience? Is it maybe a Manchester thing? Thinking about it more I've had some phenomenal pints of stuff like Landlord.

Definitely agree on the Pride. It's often past it's best. I can only really tolerate it in a well-frequented Fullers pub where it's cellared properly and what pretty much everyone drinks so there's a good turnover. It's the same with Doom Bar, which can actually be a decent pint but is often the token cask beer in a pub or bar that doesn't focus on good beer and ends up disgusting.

 

Carbonation maybe the wrong word. A sparkler aerates the head on the beer on the first pull (it can't be created after the first pull). If you want to learn more on the subject without coming to the North, I suggest this link for further reading but there is loads more discussion on the blogosphere: http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/lets-start-with-sparkler.html

Difficult question to answer re: bitters. Can't say I've ever had a slimy one. In the past month I've had bitters from Suffolk, Notts, Wiltshire, North Yorkshire x4, Cumbria, Hants and Durham. No real difference between them, just good bad or middling beers. Even John Smith's on cask in York was a decent bitter. Sessionable for a few pints, which is exactly what they are meant to be. Hence beauties like Jennings at 3.5% and Daleside 3.7%. Really solid gulping pints if kept in proper condition. Razor Back from Ringwood at 3.8%. Just a sublime cask pint (I don't think it works in bottle nor does Jennings bitter).

Remember that Bitter is an extremely distinct, extremely English style of beer. Landlord for instance, as much as I love it, is not a bitter. It's too pale and hoppy and not malty enough. Or at least it should be. If kept well it is mind-blowingly flavorsome. Not the character profile of a bitter though and a standard bitter shouldn't be much more than 4% really.

Yes, I was astonished upon having my first good pint of Doom Bar. It can be good! I finally found a good Fuller's pub a few years back that is a proper real ale drinkers pub so everything is always fresh. Ye Olde Mitre. Go if you've never been. Great pub.

 

Let’s discuss some physics: the sparkler does not add CO2. The maximum amount of CO2 is how the beer is carbonated within the cask. The delivery of the beer from the cask will reduce CO2 (i.e., knock CO2 out of solution). Below is an interesting discussion on the topic of sparkler use:

“With the exception of every cellarman we spoke to, Northerners prefer beer served with a sparkler. Why? Surprisingly, it didn’t have anything to do with how the ale tasted, but how it looked! They prefer the tight creamy head on the beer, rather than the “flat” beer of the south. Thing is, if you taste a beer with and without the sparkler, they are quite different! To my taste, the sparkled beer tastes flat. Old. Stale. No hop character in the beer, but possibly more in the aroma. The non sparkled beer tastes fresh. Lively. More bitter, yet well rounded. It makes sense; you’re taking a lightly carbonated ale and literally forcing it through tiny holes. Of course, that’s going to knock out carbonation and force hop aroma into the head of the beer. Thing is, if you force that carbonation out of the beer, it’s going to foam like crazy so you have to start with even less carbonation to balance it out!”

“The Cellarmen that we spoke to also had different views on how best to serve their ale. In the south, it seemed they were indifferent towards the use of a beer engine vs. straight from the cask in the cellar. Either one was great. Basically, the same. In the North, without excpetion, every cellarman preferred the ale straight from the tap in the cellar. As the Cellarman at The Lion in Nottingham proudly stated, “you have to pull the bloody sparkler off upstairs if you want a proper pint.”

http://caskaleathome.blogspot.com/p/word-on-sparklers.html

Cheers!

 

For the sake of everyone's sanity, can we agree that a sparkler introduces a head and lacing? Can we also agree that Nottingham has never been in the north, will never be in the north and is not in the north?

It is also moronic to say 'every cellarman without exception'. Well yes, perhaps those surveyed. In the Midlands.

 

Being from East London, Nottingham has always counted as North in my mind! Mostly based on how people I've known from there have talked and sounded. North would be wrong actually, but definitely Northern to us, relatively speaking!

As for Landlord, it's less like a modern bitter than something like Boltmaker it's true, but would still count as a bitter, as it is a pale, bitter beer. Youngs Bitter and Harvey's Best are also quite pale and hoppy. Martyn Cornell does describe it as a special bitter though. Though that just opens a whole other can of worms - the constantly evolving and never properly defined field of beer styles!

 

Fortunately Nottingham isn't in the North and Landlord isn't a bitter. 100% a pale ale. Very distinct from a bitter, just as Marston's EPA is, to name another big cask ale. The brewery thinks so, this site thinks so, untappd thinks so, I think so.

 

Maybe Ron Pattinson (@patto1ro) would grace us in the ‘debate’ of Pale Ale vs. Bitter Ale?

Maybe the ‘answer’ is in his book entitled Bitter!

“An assemblage of Bittery goodness, telling the tale of Pale Ale in its many forms. An alphabet soup of names: IPA, PA, AK, BB, AKK, XK, XLK, BA, BBB and many more. From the 1820's to the 1980's, there's everything you need to know about the style that made Burton world famous. Homebrew recipes of Pale Ales of the past, too. Plus loads and loads of tables of numbers.”

http://www.lulu.com/shop/ronald-pattinson/bitter/paperback/product-21856830.html

Cheers!

 

Well I just read this thread https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/bitter-vs-pale-ale.145271/ and I stand to be corrected by people who know more about the history than I do.

I'm not sure I agree in the present day though. If you ask for a pint of bitter around here and Landlord is on, you aint gettin' a pint of Landlord! I'll have to quote CwrwAm Byth "Depends whether you're trying to argue there originally was no difference or whether there currently is a difference."