Cask Ale

Discussion in 'United Kingdom & Ireland' started by WolverineShorts, Oct 21, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. WolverineShorts

    WolverineShorts Initiate (0) Aug 17, 2017 Illinois

    As an American, I do not encounter cask ale often. When I do however, it rarely seems to work for me here. Let me say tho, a beautiful cask english pale or mild is absolutely my favorite style of beer, but time and time again I am let down when I have the opportunity to have cask here.

    It even happens at good bars and tap rooms where i know there is passion for the beer and it is well kept. For instance, I had a Surly Todd the Axe Man on Friday on cask and while a fantastic american 2IPA on its own, cask did absolutely nothing for the beer. I put my thoughts here as I figured I could get some more experienced cask drinkers responses, but why do you think this is? Do some hops not work as well? styles? Maybe my impression of the bar or pub's knowledge is over inflated? Why can we not have a proper english ale on cask? is it simply demand and tastes? Will the cask not last the travel well to be shipped?

    My personal thoughts are that some styles are just "meant" for cask and MOST are absolutely not. As well as some hops just seem to be enhanced while others are not. The whole point of american ipa is the intense hop characteristics that are completely muted by it. I dont need some funky saison or ale with adjuncts just chucked in for the hell of it. ohhh we are adding some orange peels and tree bark to this cask and beer nerds here stateside will go gaga. NOOOO. Sorry its just not good and imo does a disservice to cask, turning more people off than on.

    Anyway, this is not a slam on cask and in fact the direct opposite, i hate how its approached and treated here. Its easily the best way to enjoy a session in a bar and wish I had the many options that you have in the UK. I just wondered others thoughts on why as Americans we just either seem to not be able to reproduce its wonderful qualities here.

    Have a great day everyone, look forward to the discussion. Cheers.
     
  2. Hanglow

    Hanglow Pooh-Bah (2,051) Feb 18, 2012 Scotland
    Pooh-Bah

    It certainly doesn't suite all beers, particularly beers with high carbonation such as saison or trad wheat beers. Just like serving a bitter or stout cold and heavily carbonated never works.

    As for all out hop monsters, I think it works very well for some but not all. I don't like the DIPAS I've tried for example, they always end up too sweet even if they do have a lot of bitterness, I think they need the carbonic bite to help. For what one might term transatlantic IPAs or modern British ones that use new world hops in abundance, between 5 and 6 percent is the sweet spot for me. Cask really excells at sub 5%, all my favourite hop forward beers below that are best served from cask. Finding them in good condition is another matter though , a problem that really needs adressing
     
    augie and WolverineShorts like this.
  3. alovelydrop

    alovelydrop Initiate (0) May 21, 2018 England

    These are just a few random thoughts:

    - Traditional British styles aren't trendy/fashionable. Even here in the UK it's pretty rare to see a modern brewery take on a best bitter or a mild (I know it does happen, but it's not the 'hype' breweries). They don't require adjuncts or hops to be good, so I guess it isn't particularly exciting to people.

    - Hoppy beers can work very well on cask - anyone that has had a well-kept pint of Jaipur by Thornbridge will know that. But cask generally lends itself to lower strength beer (discounting imperial porters/stouts) so any hoppy beers over say, 6%, tend to not be that great.

    - Cask beer just tastes better in the UK. It might sound like crap but there is a lot more to drinking than what is in the glass. Your environment, surroundings and your expectations are very important. There is something about drinking cask in a decent pub, the UK, that makes it extra special, I've never really enjoyed a cask beer that much anywhere else in the world (even in the former colonies..!)
     
    rtrasr, rozzom, Jaycase and 3 others like this.
  4. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,218) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I just moved from London to the US, so I've got plenty of cask ale experience. Higher carbonation (kegged beer) pushes out more aromatics. On the other hand, the lower carbonation and higher temperatures of cask beer allows the flavor of the beer to come through more. When it comes to IPAs, you should, in general, get more aromatics from the kegged beer. While you should, in general, get more flavor in the cask beer, you also have to remember that much of perceived flavor is actually coming from your sense of smell. You've probably heard of the test where people with no sense of smell have difficulty distinguishing an apple from an onion in a blind taste test.
    So, the answer to your question is...it depends. In some beers (even hoppy IPAs) there are cask versions that bring out something you just can't taste in a kegged version. Dark Star Green Hop on cask would be an example for me where you really taste the wet hop flavor in a way you don't get in highly carbonated beers. On the other hand, I agree that most big hoppy beers, whether they are from Trillium or Kernel, do fall a bit flat on cask.
    I certainly don't go as far as to say some styles don't "work" on cask. I think it is better to say that some styles have a more natural fit with cask. Oxidation is a big part of what happens with cask beer...it isn't just about carbonation levels. Those flavors as the beer changes in the cask (vinous or sherry-flavors on the plus side, cardboard/stale flavors on the bad side) seem to meld very well with certain beers and not with others for obvious reasons.
     
    Hanglow likes this.
  5. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Zealot (712) Jul 1, 2009 Scotland

    Well, I disagree. I think hoppy cask beers are fantastic. It's interesting you mention the Kernel. I'm a cask guy and I like their keg beers because they have a similar sort of carbonation level to a cask.

    There are absolutely some styles that don’t work in cask. And I say that as someone who would put almost any style in a cask. I think Hefeweizen is one which doesn't work. Without the extreme fizziness and chill it is wrong: flat and overly sweet and nasty. Oddly enough though, Belgian-style witbier works rather well in cask.

    Cask stout is terrific, cask imperial stout is sublime.

    Double IPAs can work but the cask handling – and the brewing – needs to be perfect or they can be overpowering and heavy.
     
    Hanglow likes this.
  6. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,218) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Not sure why you say you disagree with me. I like hoppy cask beers as well and agree with most of your post.
    My points were (1) increased carbonation levels release more aromatics for your nose to smell, (2) decreased carbonation allows your tongue to taste more effectively, and (3) oxidation is part of the cask process and it changes flavor in the ways I mentioned. If you disagree with that, we'll have to agree to disagree because I believe those are facts and not opinions.
    I used to go to the Kernel a lot when the taproom was open, but not so much in the last couple years since it closed...probably just for the Zwanze party each year. I'm not sure what you'd consider "similar sort of carbonation to a cask." Fermentation under un-pressurized conditions at cool temps leave you with beer in the 1.2-1.5 vol range, and I believe cask is usually consumed around 1.1 vols (or at least this is what CAMRA used to put out to landords as the ideal level). Average IPA levels are double that at 2.1-2.6 vols. Kernel may very well be on the low end or below average, but couldn't be near cask levels since they wouldn't get the head and head retention they have on their beers. I expect some of it is perceived through softer mouthfeel from the yeast strain, mash temp, etc.
    Cask Pub and Kitchen used to be a 5-minute bike ride or 10-minute lunchtime jog from my office...I do miss running out for a good pint while I was supposed to be working. So sad...
     
  7. rtrasr

    rtrasr Savant (1,032) Feb 16, 2009 Arkansas

    High temperatures in the summer makes it tough to properly serve cask in the US.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.