Cask Appreciation: Piston or Gravity Dispense

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by M-Fox24, Nov 8, 2022.

  1. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    As I understand it, lambic was traditionally served from the barrel. Raf Meerts asserts that the original meaning of Geuze was lambic that was good enough to serve straight from its original barrel with out blending or sweetening. He places the emergence of bottled geuze in the later 1800s, mostly in response to the rise in popularity of champagne and Bavarian lager
     
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  2. galttfwo

    galttfwo Devotee (363) Jan 2, 2007 New Jersey


    There was actually a post in regards to this on 3 Fonteinen's FB recently.

    From the Post on October 20th
    You may have noticed that we only pour our lambics from a handpump, both in our lambik-O-droom and at festivals. This is the traditional way to enjoy lambic from draft, whether it is a young or old lambic, from a special barrel or a fruited lambic.
    Historically, Iambic is pulled manually and with gravity, directly from the oak barrel or from a freshly filled steel keg, that solely functions as an intermediary vessel. So without any need for pressurized CO2. And, moreover, the lambic has not (!) fermented in the keg. The lambic is possibly dispensed through a sparkler, aerating it and forming a frothy head in the glass, for selected lambic beers.
    In the lambik-O-droom, we have two of such English hand pumps. We usually serve two versions of faro, and sometimes even a fruit lambic straight from the maceration barrel.
     
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  3. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thank you. I've also heard that the lambic from the beer engines at Moeder Lambic is still and served with a sparkler. If there's no fermentation going on in the "cask" (or if this wouldn't pass CAMRA's standards for "real ale"), then I can understand why there'd be some eye rolling. Consumers take things at face value. If it's superficially presented as "cask beer," then the average consumer who is familiar with cask beer will assume that there is an equivalence with English cask beer. I could be mistaken or interpreting the above quote wrong, but it also seems disingenuous to claim that a handpump "is the traditional way" to serve draft lambic if they weren't traditionally using beer engines. Why not just state that lambic would not have been served by being pushed with gas, so with their traditions in mind they now use beer engines at 3 Fonteinen to provide a draft experience? None of what I am saying is meant to take away from the specialness or value of these methods or what's actually being served though.
     
  4. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    • Wild East
    • New York, USA
    • 1xGravity Dispensed Cask
      • Cask-conditioned
      • Cask Tapped: Nov. 25th, 2022
      • Visit: Nov. 26th, 2022
    • Dark Mild: Temperance @ 3.5%
      • Submerged: No
      • Visuals: 4

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]




    WE tapping, from the day before -

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Zealot (712) Jul 1, 2009 Scotland

    That doesn't look good. Almost completely flat.
     
  6. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    This is a gravity dispensed ale with gentle – natural – carbonation: still ‘alive’ amid a precise softness on day #2/minimum agitation
     
  7. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    New partnership between Theakston & the Blackrose Pubs to “reignite the UK’s love for cask beer,” which is apparently targeting “a new generation” per a “Pale Ale which has been specially brewed to be served extra chilled through a dedicated hand pump...”

    Nonetheless, the intent comes with an educational foundation on cask upkeep -


    Source:
    Theakston teams up with Blackrose Pubs to reignite passion for cask — Harrogate Informer (harrogate-news.co.uk)
     
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  8. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Not mentioned in the OP, but the ‘East London & City Branch of CAMRA’ is hosting their 38th Pigs Ear Beer Fest 2022, from Nov. 29th to Dec. 3rd

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Sources + Lists:
     
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  9. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    "extra chilled" huh?!?!?!
     
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  10. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Suppose that's how one targets the "new generation"
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I suspect this is a 'strategy' to slowly get the 'kids' re-introduced to cask beer? The two main complaints that are often made about cask beer is that it is warm and flat. Maybe address one complaint at a time?

    Cheers!

    P.S. Since I am a fan of traditional cask beer I have in the past complained to some of my local craft beer bars about them serving their cask beer too cold. The common refrain is that the bar only has one cold 'box' and all of the draft beers are served at that same temperature; they don't have a separate location (e.g., a basement) for the storage/serving of cask beer.
     
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  12. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Zealot (712) Jul 1, 2009 Scotland

    It doesn’t look like it has any carbonation worth mentioning, natural or otherwise. Where’s the foam? That beer’s flat.
     
  13. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Staling was not an issue: vented well across the 24 hrs with a gentler tier on carbonation, for a smoother/richer/deeper profile…did not spoil, or become subjected to vinegar



    [​IMG]
     
  14. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have had all of the top 5 beers on the above list with the exception of the top beer: Sharp’s Doom Bar.

    I was not familiar with this beer so I looked it up on BA. There are 57 reviews and 180 ratings for this beer with a score of 79 (which equates to Okay).

    The number 2 beer is Timothy Taylor Landlord which I have had multiple times on cask and for my palate it is a very good/excellent beer; BA score of 91 (Outstanding).

    I wonder why Sharp’s Doom Bar outsells Timothy Taylor Landlord? A situation of better distribution/marketing?

    Cheers to Timothy Taylor Landlord!
     
  16. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Jessica Slack and Ray Newman touched on Doom Bar’s Success in 2018, which ranged from Molson Coors to Marketing to the Level of Ease:

    Source:
    The Secrets of Doom Bar's Success (boakandbailey.com)
     
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  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    So, there is no real need for a cellar person at the pub to 'finish' the cask and decide on when it is ready to be served when it comes to Sharp's Doom Bar. From a handling/maintenance perspective it could be argued this is easier/best for the pub owner but based upon the reviews/ratings it comes at the expense of serving sub-par product to the pub's customers. Not a 'good' trade-off from my perspective. But if the customers are willing to drink that stuff...?

    Maybe another indicator of the decline of cask beer in the UK?

    Cheers!
     
  18. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    …a seasonal

    • The Grand Delancey
    • New York, USA
    • 2xBeer Engines
      • 1xActive
      • Cask-conditioned
      • Cask Tapped: Nov. 30th, 2022
      • Pub Visit: Dec. 2nd, 2022
    • Christmas IPA: Cask-Conditioned Celebration Fresh Hop IPA
      • Brewery: Sierra Nevada
      • Grains: Caramelized malts, Two-row Pale
      • Hops: Cascade, Centennial, Chinook
      • Yeast: Ale Yeast
      • ABV:6.8%
      • Breather: Yes
      • Sparkler: On
        • Pictures: 4
      • Sparkler: Off
        • Pictures: 4


    Sparkler: On

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Sparkler: Off

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]




    Tapping, from the other day -

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    What are the details of the conditioning of the Celebration? If you know, of course.

    All done at the brewery, and anything different from bottle-conditioning?

    Sparkler off and you got that kind of head?
     
  20. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Actually reached out to SN the other day, but have yet to hear back on the specifics: will let you know, should a response come back

    The sparkler had a substantial – aeriated – effect on the serving, which noticeably knocked the carbon dioxide = The accessory did not benefit ‘Celebration,’ as the deterioration on the hop effect was severe (i.e. devalued the bitterness excessively/too much). Irrespective, both pints were enjoyable
     
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