cellar temperature control devices?

Discussion in 'Cellaring / Aging Beer' started by ThoreauLikeAGirl, Jul 8, 2013.

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  1. ThoreauLikeAGirl

    ThoreauLikeAGirl Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Just moved into a new apartment recently and my new "cellar" is a walk-in closet with poor temperature constants and now that summer is in full swing its definitely far from ideal.
    Problem is there is no window in or nearby for an air conditioner or even portable air conditioner. Is there anything out there that will help maintain a cooler and constant temperature that doesn't need window ventilation? I'm not rich, either. My google-fu is not coming up with much.
     
  2. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Put a tank of glycol in a chest freezer then run copper lines into the room with a thermostatically controlled pump for the glycol.

    Edit: freezer would need to be outside the room, of course.
     
  3. ThoreauLikeAGirl

    ThoreauLikeAGirl Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Pennsylvania

    ...sounds expenpensive. I rent and can't really do any modifications to the place =/
     
  4. stupac2

    stupac2 Pooh-Bah (2,031) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Pooh-Bah

    leedorham's solution (or something similar) is probably your best bet. Any method of cooling a space requires heating some other space (hurray thermodynamics) and so every method will "require" window ventilation if you don't want to heat the rest of your apartment. The other solution is to put a fridge in the closet, or something similar (partition the closet, one side is the "hot" side, the other the "cool" side, and you move heat from the cool to the hot).
     
  5. ThoreauLikeAGirl

    ThoreauLikeAGirl Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Ah okies. Not so sure that would work. Closet is in a hallway with no room for that outside of it. Thanks though
     
  6. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Place the beer next to your cold cold heart.
     
  7. ThoreauLikeAGirl

    ThoreauLikeAGirl Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Followup question: would the portable a/c require window ventilation or can I just vent to either outside the closet (and heat rest of apt) or partition closet and vent to non-partitioned section? What said above seems to say I can vent anywhere if I don't mind the extra heat.


    Also I saw a fan that cools with water? Not sure if that would work in an enclosed space, though
     
  8. ThoreauLikeAGirl

    ThoreauLikeAGirl Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Pennsylvania

    =D
     
  9. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Do you have a dryer in the apartment anywhere near this closet?
     
  10. stupac2

    stupac2 Pooh-Bah (2,031) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Correct, if you cut a hole in the door and stuck a window unit in there that was venting into your apartment, that would work. I think there might be units designed for this that don't vent out quite as much heat. Also, if you do go that route, you'll probably want to insulate the closet with some blocks of foam or something, otherwise the cool air will bleed out really fast and you'll spend way more time heating than you need to.

    You can't cool a closed system, a fan with water attached would actually make a room hotter because you're bringing energy in without taking any out. But it would depend a lot on exactly what's going on there. A fan that sprays water seems like it's using the same principle as sweating, that evaporating water takes some energy from the surface it's evaporating off of in order to complete the phase transition, and thus cools it. But now you have water vapor with some energy in the air, so the total energy in the room is conserved. I guess you could keep beer somewhat cool that way, but it's far from the best way to do this.
     
  11. otispdriftwood

    otispdriftwood Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2011 Colorado

    Cheapest solution - current fridge. Less food more beer.
    Next cheapest - find a friend nearby who you can trust who has a house with a basement. And if it's in walking distance, it's really the cheapest.
    Next best - a small fridge. Picked up a small apartment fridge for $350 in NY last year. Has room for a little over 3 cs. and it has a small freezer as well.
    If you don't like any of those - don't try to cellar anything during the summer. Stick to fall, winter & spring.
     
  12. ThoreauLikeAGirl

    ThoreauLikeAGirl Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Pennsylvania

    the dryer is in the basement. i'd love to actually use the basement, but it's actually HOTTER than the closet. ha. still not sure how that happens, but whatever.
    i might try the portable a/c and try cutting a hole in the wall of the closet - maybe my landlord will allow me if i promise to fix it when/if i move.
    i have a feeling my cellar is too large for a chest freezer/fridge/whatever option. 300 bottles, mostly 750s =/

    thanks for everyone's input.

    these are the water fans i was talking about - "evaporative cooler" - anyone have experience with these?
    http://www.lowes.com/Heating-Cooling/Air-Conditioners-Fans/Evaporative-Coolers/_/N-1z11qh2/pl?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&cm_sp=SeasonalLiving-_-HeatingCooling|PopularCat-_-Merch|PopularCat_Evaporative_Coolers&cm_cr=Air Conditioning-_-Web Activity-_-Air Conditioning TF cat revamp-_-SC_Air Conditioners Fans_TopFlexible_Area-_-10682062_3_#!
    *edit: it appears from reviews that these are only good for places with low humidity.... that is definitely not the case in Philly =/
     
  13. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    If you use the basement where the dryer is, you can vent a portable a/c unit out the same hole as the dryer.

    use one of these:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. ThoreauLikeAGirl

    ThoreauLikeAGirl Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Pennsylvania

    basement is huge and shared with whoever decides to move into the apartment upstairs. however, the only parts i actually get to use for storage is the provided 'closet' down there. but since the basement is already hot, it would be useless to cellar in there. would be running into the same problems as i am in the upstairs closet, but with even more crappy insulation if i were to stick a portable a/c in the closet down there.

    i hate being a renter. womp womp.
     
  15. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Life is full of choices :wink:
     
  16. ThoreauLikeAGirl

    ThoreauLikeAGirl Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Pennsylvania

    FT: 300 bottle cellar / ISO: free house. husband. golden retriever. and no mortgage.
     
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  17. jedwards

    jedwards Initiate (0) Feb 3, 2009 California

    Basement might accomodomate a chest freezer w/ temp controller though (it's easy to throw a padlock on it if you're concerned about the shared space)? That really is the best bet for moderately sized cellars / places where you can't build out. If you do decide to go the portable A/C route you absolutely must insulate the closet or your efficiency will be abysmal.

    I just moved from a place in New England with a basement space that I built out and insulated (hello, whoever moved in there! Hope you like the prebuilt cellar!) to Denver, with nothing, so I just got space in a wine storage facility. Those seem to be few and far between back East though.

    Re getting a chest freezer, it's pretty easy to find them cheap on Craigslist/etc. You can rent a pickup from Home Depot to get it and ply your friends with beer to help move it in / have it fall on them / be trapped in it forever / etc.
     
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  18. Dupage25

    Dupage25 Savant (1,044) Jul 4, 2013 Antarctica

    Well, how long are you going to be in this situation? Is it temporary till you find a better-paying job or what?

    I'm sort of in a similar situation with a rental, but just about my entire cellar is in someone else's basement, so it isn't much of an issue. Said basement is basically storage space with carpeting, they seriously don't use it for anything else and therefore don't care if I take up one or two cabinets. If was in your boat long-term but with a job I would honestly just look for a wine storage rental facility. Unless you have a good friend with a house nearby that is the only option.

    Unless you can legitimately keep the air set at 60-65F 24/7 and the apartment has good insulation.
     
  19. ThoreauLikeAGirl

    ThoreauLikeAGirl Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Pennsylvania


    unless i magically win the lottery, this is not temporary, as far as i can tell.

    already checked on wine storage places around here a couple years ago and came up empty-handed.
    no friends nearby that would care.
     
  20. Dupage25

    Dupage25 Savant (1,044) Jul 4, 2013 Antarctica

    Do you ever buy bottled water? Because one option is to buy cold water bottles and store them next to the beer....not ideal, and would work better if you kept them in an enclosed space (like a chest, box, cabinet, whatever). But better than nothing. You would have to make sure to rotate the water pretty frequently. Obviously, if you aren't already buying bottled water then this would eventually add up to a considerable additional expense.

    I only mention it because most of my beers in the aforementioned basement happen to be in a cabinet, and a few times I have put beer straight from the fridge into the cabinet. I am often amazed by how much colder all of the beer feels the next day or even two days later when I pull something else out. If I was regularly putting a few bottles of water in there, say once or twice a week, or if I was regularly buying beer from the store and putting it in the cabinet as soon as I got home, I think the yearly average temperature of the beers in there would drop by about five to ten degrees.
     
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