Citra Adjunct Lager

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by jmich24, Feb 25, 2018.

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  1. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    Went low carb/Keto some time back for weight loss. Haven’t brewed since October. Tired of drinking triple hopped Miller Light so I’d like to attempt an Adjunct Light Lager with Citra Hops.

    Here is the plan.
    OG 1.030
    FG 1.000

    66% German Pilsner
    34% Flaked Corn

    1 ounce Citra at 5 min, FO and Dry hop.

    Estimated 4.2% 12 IBUs and 4 Carbs p/12 ounce

    Next Brew will be a Petite Saison w 3711. Hoping for similar statistics with a different taste obviously.

    Any thoughts, insight, or suggestions?
     
  2. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Corn have less carbs than Pilsner malt? If close, I'd go with higher % Pilsner and corn/wheat/rice/oats. Cheers...I hear ya. :flushed:
     
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  3. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Let me start off by stating this: I am not a doctor, nutritionist, or any sort of scientist.

    It's my understanding that alcohol molecules are basically halfway between a carbohydrate and a fat (that's why they're 7 calories/gram. Carbs and proteins are 3.5, fats are 9). And the majority of simple carbohydrates in the wort are transformed into alcohol by the yeast. If I am incorrect, or only halfway there, or its not so simple, feel free to correct me.
    So maybe go for a low-alcohol, high protein brew. You can be a bit more aggressive with flavoring it. Maybe something like 50/50 wheat/oat malt, mash low, so you have plenty of simple carbohydrates (sugars, esp. maltose) for the yeast to eat up. You should still end up with decent body, enough protein (and fats from the oat malt), to have a bit more aggressive hopping.
     
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  4. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    The Ketogenic diet isn’t negativity effected by alcohol, only too many net carbs and excess protein will kick you out of ketosis. The idea is to get the FG as low as possible, think Mich Ultra and Miller Light have the lowest carb for the alcohol you get.

    I didnt mean to make this a diet discussion just looking for brewing tips.

    Low carb/ keto diets are not a fad in my opinion.
    I lost 50 pounds limiting my carb intake to less than 100 grams per day. While stil enjoying craft beer on weekly basis. I have lost another 15 while doing Keto. I feel fantastic on Keto but to miss good beer and the brewing hobby. These beers I’m trying to brew would be a happy medium for me. Staying keto and enjoying beer with flavor. I apologize to anyone offended by this discussion.

    Links that might interest some:
    https://www.ruled.me/ketogenic-diet-and-alcohol/
    http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/carb-cal.shtml




     
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  5. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    You didn't mention yeast.
    You would likely benefit from a highly attenuating yeast to eat through the available sugars.

    You would also benefit from a relatively low mash temp.

    Of course it depends on your choice of calories. Alcohol or malt?

    There is no free lunch so to speak. Getting to 1.000 FG is not something you can just hope for. It will require a the application of a good bit of brewing science.

    As for the corn, I don't see any need for it. There is nothing special about corn other than it is cheaper and readily available to large breweries that need to keep costs in check. It is also useful for feeding chickens.

    Cheers.
     
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  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    FWIW, there are still sugars/carbs at 1.000. If every carb was turned to alcohol, the FG would be well below 1.000.
     
  7. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    The goal of the ‘lite’ beer is to increase your calorie effeciency. It is a delicate balance. Try to have alcohol make up as much of your calories as possible without creating a flavorless beer. Like true gluten free brewing, its a different type of brewing that takes a unique set of skills and experience.
    Its definitely on the short list for me. Probably something I’ll try in the summer.

    I would recommend a step mash and mycolase. I believe that’s what the big guys use to get super efficient mashes, and if I’m not mistaken, is how saki is mashed?

    3711 will dry your beer out more than other strains because, among other things, it is diastaticus positive. Something to be mindful of.
     
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  8. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    34/70 was my yeast choice
    149 Mash temp
     
    #8 jmich24, Feb 25, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  9. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    I forgot to mention I am using Amalyse Enzyme in the mash and in the primary fermenter to try to achieve the lowest FG possible.

    Assuming you are interested in my results, I will report back on my findings. I know it is going to take multiple batches to dail this process in.
     
    #9 jmich24, Feb 25, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
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  10. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Drink founders all day
     
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  11. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Can't speak to calories, but I have made citra lagers and they are tasty
     
  12. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Barley doesn't have any more calories than corn or rice when it comes to alcohol in beer. If you want low calorie just mash low and use a very small grain bill to get to like 4 percent alcohol so it will be dry and crisp and lower calories
     
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  13. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    This subject is quite interesting. Forgive me if I diverge a bit from the topic.

    This appears to be true on the surface, but since alcohol has the capacity to be used as energy, it does, in fact, negatively impact blood sugar.

    The short answer, in case you wondered, is due to ethyl alcohol being transformed into Acetyl CoA and being reintroduced into the CAC.

    Also, staying in ketosis is decidedly bad. Why? Because in ketosis you break down other body tissue, like adipose AND skeletal muscle, to provide energy. What you want is to limit carbohydrate intake while still remaining in positive nitrogen balance.

    If you're not going to drink the most flavorful beer possible, why drink beer at all?
     
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  14. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    13 Carbs per 12 ounce. No bueno
     
  15. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    I’m not here to debate the benefits or negatives to a low carbohydrate/ keto style diet.

    I can tell you I feel great and lost 60+ pounds. I now have have twice the strengh and muscle mass. I wasn’t a huge guy, probably below average weight wise in my home brew club.

    I also understand this isn’t the platform to speak about health. Drinking alcohol is in itself unhealthy, but I enjoy the process of Home brewing and have enjoyed it for the past 10 years. Life for me at this point is about compromise and happiness.

    Cheers


     
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  16. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Certainly understand trying to find a happy medium. Simply don't understand sacrificing flavor just so you can brew and drink. Isn't that the overreaching purpose of brewing (and drinking) craft beer in the first place?
     
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  17. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    Not for me. I have been having two or three Miller Lights one weekends 9.6 carbs total. Catching a nice buzz at my current weight. Also dabbling more into whisky.

    My original recipe idea came from a Miller Light Clone. I planned to sub the Cascade for Citra. If my homebrew eventually tastes better than the Miller Lite, it’s a win for me. Also going to brew some more saisons, Berliners and sessions sours.
     
  18. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    My brother does keto and drinks Michelob ultra. I find it pretty tolerable as far as AAL go.
     
  19. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Right on. Good on ya for the whisky, as well. That reminds me, I haven't been drinking as much Scotch as I should be.
     
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  20. CarolusP

    CarolusP Zealot (590) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    Please report back. While I'm not doing the keto diet or anything, I am going to try to experiment on doing some very low-ABV-but-not-flavorless beers this summer to try to help get the weight gain under control.
     
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