Clarification on rules and neutral feedback?

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by kscaldef, Jun 28, 2015.

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  1. kscaldef

    kscaldef Initiate (0) Jun 11, 2010 Oregon

    I noticed in the most recent round of trading rule updates that this looks like it was added. (Or maybe I just didn't notice it until now).

    Abusing the Beer Trading Feedback System. Examples:
    • Basing your okay/negative feedback on the lack of extras; unless extras were part of the agreed upon trade.

    I'm curious where the line gets drawn here. If someone says in conversation "I'm going to include some great extras" and then the box shows up and they "forgot" the extras, does that qualify as "agreed upon"? I've experienced this a couple times and it seems to me like that qualifies as "Okay (expectations were met, but ...)". It certainly lands someone on my personal "would not trade with again" list, but I've been hesitant to give out neutral feedback for it (more out of a fear of subtle retaliation than because of this rule which I hadn't noticed).

    More generally, I remain a little uncertain about what is considered an exceptable "but" that justifies neutral feedback. I don't think I've ever seen anyone with neutral feedback when I'm considering a trade, so there's not much to go on here. Another thing that might cause me personally not to trade with someone again is a terrible packing job; the sort where you open the box and can't believe the bottles arrived intact. Deserving of neutral feedback? I don't know. Excessive delays in shipping? (How long?) I think it would be nice to know what the mods, and the community, consider a reasonable use of neutral feedback.
     
    nsheehan likes this.
  2. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    It's been part of the rules for a long time now. And yes, if someone offers extras during negotiations that becomes part of the offer.
     
  3. kscaldef

    kscaldef Initiate (0) Jun 11, 2010 Oregon

    Cool, thanks for clarifying.

    Any other examples of what are considered appropriate uses of neutral feedback?
     
  4. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    That's a good question for our active traders, so I'll allow them to chime in.
     
  5. maximum12

    maximum12 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,686) Jan 21, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I haven't had this happen since the feedback system was in place, but I can think of at least three guys who I would have rated "neutral" in the old days - all for repeatedly missing deadlines to ship, not bothering to answer queries while they're otherwise active, but eventually (2-6 weeks after agreed) sending their box. To me, if someone is two weeks plus outside the promised shipping window, that warrants neutral feedback. History has shown that these folks are also very likely to become bad traders.

    I can't think of any other reason I'd put someone at "neutral" but I'm sure there are circumstances that would warrant it. Bad packing job wouldn't do it; but I do always mention this to the trader when it happens, i.e. "Gee, the beer made it here, but I'm a little surprised."
     
  6. JavaNoire

    JavaNoire Savant (1,163) Dec 4, 2010 Iowa

    Two weeks plus outside the promised shipping date is getting kissing close to deserving negative fb unless the ongoing communication is exemplary & sound reasons for the delay(s) are provided. This is doubly true if the delays involve hop forward brews.

    Many times the 'reasons' we see given here appear to be excuses for laziness rather than bona fide situations that needed or deserved more time.
     
  7. pagriley

    pagriley Pooh-Bah (2,382) Oct 27, 2014 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Agreed. Beyond 2 or 3 days it better be family emergencies / births / deaths or that sort of thing. I have had traders who got called into work for overtime and that sort of jazz, but they always get the package out in the next day or two. If my box has arrived at your door and you haven't sent yet... well sure, life happens, but come on, it isn't that hard.

    I have had one trade partner who was able to find a friend with a black tuesday, trade that off him, and still get my package to my door within 10 days... I am starting to get a lot more intolerant of bullshit laziness.

    I have also started to communicate shipping dates very clearly in my mail trades - so far so good, but long delays (ie multiple weeks) = negative feedback as far as I am concerned unless someone gave birth or died (or something major like that).
     
    rozzom and TonyLema1 like this.
  8. Yohann

    Yohann Zealot (744) Apr 29, 2014 Wisconsin
    Trader

    I would say any situation where the beer eventually showed up but you spent a significant amount of time thinking it very possibly would not.
     
    kscaldef, maximum12 and mythaeus like this.
  9. markgugs

    markgugs Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New Jersey

    I've personally left 2 'neutral' feedbacks - 1 for someone who accepted the trade & exchanged addresses with me, then backed out of the trade (I made note that no beer was lost), and a 2nd one for literally the worst packing job I've ever seen (4 bombers thrown in the middle of a box, not bubble-wrapped, nothing).
     
    kscaldef likes this.
  10. greg4579

    greg4579 Initiate (0) Jan 9, 2010 Pennsylvania

    I left one for sending the wrong bottle then asking me to ship back. He did provide a label, but then sent no extras when he said he would send than you beers, and this was after he sent no extras the first time when I did. I did denote that I did not think anyone would be in danger of not receiving beer, but I just couldn't leave "good" after that ordeal.
     
  11. pagriley

    pagriley Pooh-Bah (2,382) Oct 27, 2014 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The first time round with no extras, fine, no big deal since it wasn't agreed as part of the deal; but then when he said he would send something nice as an extra for his mistake and didn't? To me that is now part of the deal, and I would actually be pretty annoyed. That sucks - I would certainly not trade with someone who did that.
     
    rozzom likes this.
  12. rozzom

    rozzom Pooh-Bah (2,620) Jan 22, 2011 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    It boggles the mind that good communication / packing / timeliness / extras are not standard practice. But you encounter the same s**t in most other aspects of life. It's just surprising that some people get by each day.

    And to answer the question - I've only traded twice on here, and both experiences were great. But I wouldn't hesitate to leave neutral where the box wasn't sent on time containing the agreed upon items, without very good communication to explain what the issue was.
     
    pagriley likes this.
  13. Yohann

    Yohann Zealot (744) Apr 29, 2014 Wisconsin
    Trader

    If it's part of the deal, it's no longer an extra. Extras are things you throw in the box in addition to the agreed-upon trade.
     
  14. jonesry09

    jonesry09 Initiate (0) Apr 29, 2015 Minnesota

    This is a good thread to read through for all new guys like myself. Glad I saw this. I have never had a problem trading on other forums (cigar, bourbon) but it was just good to read peoples expectations on here. FYI, non of which has been said above do I think is out of the ordinary. Promptness, packaging, "extras" and communication are just the fundamentals of being a good trader/person.
     
    2_Beardz and greg4579 like this.
  15. whiskey

    whiskey Maven (1,308) Feb 25, 2012 California
    Trader

    I had 12 BCBS sent to me once in a box, bottles sitting upright, unsecured with a strip of paper towel laid between the bottles. They all made it. I have no idea how.
     
    BigBadBeerSnob and nsheehan like this.
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